New Regimental/battalion role specialization

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Yimmy RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization 2/3/2005 10:24:52 PM

Not relating to your question (of which I have no idea) - but if you don't mind my asking, why do you strive so to have such an in depth knowledge of the British military?

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Worcester RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization- Yimmy 2/4/2005 6:30:14 PM

(a) Simply a decades old professional interest in our most important European ally. (b) The UK has invented a disproportionate share of military technology and doctrine. (c) With smaller forces you can try structures which would cause us huge dislocation and political rief. (d) With a smaller budget, your prioritization and "thinking outside the box" has to be better.

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Yimmy RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization- Yimmy 2/21/2005 8:21:14 PM

Oh, our government think outside of the box alright... their in a world of their own.

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neutralizer RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization- Yimmy 3/30/2005 5:24:36 AM

Actually the allocation of 23 bns isn't overly clear. There are 9 bns in mech and 4 (previously 6) in armde bdes (=13). 16 AAB is now 4 (previously 3) (=17) (previously = 18) its a bit difficult. That leaves 6 bns, assume the Lt Bde has 4 like 16 AAB (=21). Where are the other 2? Then there's the matter of 5 fmn recce regts, 1 per div, 1 for 16 AAB, assume 1 for Lt Inf bde. Assume the 3 supports 3 Cdo Bde and other tasks. Interesting that it now looks like 'lt' bdes with 4 inf bns and 1 recce regt.

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neutralizer RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization 3/30/2005 5:33:04 AM

Supplementary comment, since UK took to publishing doctrinal stuff (I won't debate whether or not they've had 'doctrine' before) there are some very good examples of military thinking. BMD, HLOC and JSP777 are very interesting examples of some of the leading military thinking today.

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Worcester RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization- Yimmy 3/30/2005 12:31:11 PM

I suspect the 2 "additional" to get 23 will be Warrior making 6 in 1 Div. A little top heavy for 2 armd brigades perhaps, but....since each Infantry organizational "Division" (Guards, Scottish, Kings, Queens, PoW, Light) is supposed to have at least 1 bn in each of the roles, and there are six "Divisions", that means a minimum 6 armd. I suspect they'll "hide" the additional 2 bn in 1 UK Divisional reserve and at WArminster (demo unit) if not actually in 7 & 20 armd Brigades.

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Worcester RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization: Neutralizer 3/30/2005 12:33:23 PM

Of the 4 bn in 16AAB, presumably you're NOT including 1Para which is leaving the line.

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neutralizer RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization: Neutralizer 4/1/2005 10:40:33 PM

16 AAB has only ever had a 2 para bns, they've always rotated them. I doubt the Warrior idea, there are all sorts of issues and these are the most expensive type of bn. One possibility is that they are un-brigaded and earmarked for the EU, just as there used to be a bn assigned to the AMF(L).

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Worcester RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization: Neutralizer 4/6/2005 6:15:18 PM

"I doubt the Warrior idea...un-brigaded for the EU" Given everything that the CGS and others have said and put in writing it seems obvious that the future structure is quite straightforward. Postings and roles will be fixed and careers managed by rotation within or between regiments, preferably within administrative infantry divisions. Scottish, Kings, PoW and Light divisions: 5 battallions each (3 + 2) Queens division: 6 battalions (2 + 2 + 2) Guards division: 5 battallions (all single) There is a need in a fixed role army for these 6 divisions to have a minimum 1 of each (except Guards wont do mech):- A. Warrior battallions...x 6 (4 found in 7th and 20th Bdes, 2 found in other areas like 1 Div reserve [do NEED a reserve] or Warminster) B. Mechanized battallions...x 5 (excludes Guards) (9 found in 1, 4, 12 Bdes, plus 1 in 3 Div reserve)..i.e. 10 mech postings so 2 mech per division. C. Light Formation...x 6 (6 found in 16 AA Bde [2 bn plus the 2 Para bn] and 19 Light Bde [4 bn]). So, Scottish, Kings, PoW and Light will EACH have 1 armd, 2 mech, 1 light formation and 1 light role (loose/garrison/ceremonial/whatever). Queens div the same but an additional light role loose. Guards will have 1 armd, 1 light role formation, 1 light role loose and 2 Public Duties. Obviously, the 3 bn regiments will get the armd role and share the mech and light with the 2 bn regiments; Queens div will share more. It will also be interesting to see whether Para Regt goes back to wider recruitment. Having a single role with the option of Colchester or Colchester when other regiments have fa better career opportunities may account as much for the 6% under strength as the selection process. The principal problem was always the other infantry regiments in 1940-1965 always had a problem letting their best soldiers go. Understandable.

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Worcester RE:New Regimental/battalion role specialization: Example 4/6/2005 6:25:12 PM

There are four role variants (armd, mech, light formation, light unspecified) and three geographic variants (UK, Germany, other). Since most divisions are 5 battallions of two regiments, an example of fixed ole permanent posting which can be duplicated for each division and allows career flexibility:- Kings Division 1 Yorks (armd formation, Germany [7 or 20 Bde]) 2 Yorks (mech formation, UK [1 or 12 Bde]) 3 Yorks (light, unassigned) 1 KLB (mech formation, Germany [4Bde]) 2 KLB (light formation, UK [16 or 19 Bde]) You can replicate the struture across the whole Field Army and simply rotate soldiers, if not within their regiment, then at least within their administrative division. I was simply wondering with the obvious "slots" if anyone had confirmation of who was going where.

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perfectgeneral RE:Recon and 1 Para 4/7/2005 6:55:59 AM

What is going on with the parachute regiment and special forces? Is Recon a totally new unit? What will the paras do to make up for 1 Para being joined to SF? Will 1 Para move to Hereford? Will this affect recruitment?

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Yimmy RE:Recon and 1 Para 4/7/2005 10:40:59 AM

me/ slaps perfectgeneral Its recce not recon! :D

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Worcester RE:Recon and 1 Para 4/7/2005 6:52:11 PM

1. SRR was mentioned as a key requirement in July 2004 by CGS Gen Carver. It is being formed around the existing 14 Intelligence Company ("14 Int", the deep cover operators and recon experts in Northern Ireland and Bosnia). It's a 200 person (male/female, tri-service) Intelligence Corps unit expert in penetrating terrorist cells, running/turning enemy agents and conducting extreme close recon. It may grow to 300 to form out SRR. Its headquarters will relocate from Lisburn, N.I. to Hereford. CGS has said that infiltration of cells cannot be done simply by dressing up as a bush; 14 Int are the people who do this...different skill set from SAS....requires all officer/NCO teams.

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Worcester RE:Recon and 1 Para.... and 2. 4/7/2005 7:30:26 PM

Yes; it was stated in the 2004 White Paper that an SF support gp was required. 1 para will leave the Line Infantry and move to Hereford under Dir SF Gp. But it will be a very different 1 Para with different role, organziation, equipment and people; it will be tri_service as well which makes sense for the job, and it may well get remamed in time as well. As for the Parachute Regiment...good question. The Regiment has been at the bottom end of recruiting for a while (indeed at -6% it was more undermanned than 4 of the 6 Scottish Regiments now being amalgamated). Indeed they already use Gurkha and Guards reinforcement troops in all three battallions. Moving 1 Para to SFG should improve the manning levels in 2 and 3 Para in the short term by taking those in 1 Para who dont make the "cut" for SF Support (1 Para will become an open competition slot)...but you have to wonder if the two remaining battallions with a choice of Colchester or Colchester will really attract the best candidates when all the new super large regiments are offering varied careers and multiple postings. I wonder if they'll go back to having infantry "divisional/brigade" parachute companies recruited from the line regiments - e.g Kings Division Para Coy, Scots Div Para Coy etc.). Worked well before the Para Regt became direct recruited. Certainly the Guards have started the ball rolling with the Guards Platoon in 3 Para which might become a full Guards company in time. Ironic really since the old Guards Indepedent Parachute Company were the elite Pathfinder unit for 16th Parachute Brigade and were then converted to G Squadron 22 SAS in 1966; now the Paras are leaning on the Guards again. Of course, the real problem is the other Line Regiments dont like losing their best soldiers. Who would choose Colchester for their entire carrer?

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perfectgeneral RE:Recon and 1 Para.... and 2. 4/8/2005 5:03:45 AM

Ouch! Yimmy I did say I was a bit vague on this. Recce/Recon it's a Greek helmet and short sword unit innit (that's what the badge says to me)? On the matter of shortfall in recruiting for the paras...why not just base the parachute regiment in Cyprus? Seriously though, the prospect of Colchester forever has to stop. Perhaps the possibilty of Hereford will be enough, but I doubt it. If 1 Para is a SF support group then it is no longer 1 Para and should be renamed something more accurate. If the recruitment problems of the regiment are ever solved then a new 1 Para should be built up.

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