The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - November 25, 2009




New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 
Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
US Civil War - Eastern Theater Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Ben Butler
AlbanyRifles    5/8/2006 10:10:56 AM
I just finished a three day weekend tour of the 1864 Bermuda Hundred Campaign and the Petersburg Campaign of 1864. The guided tour was through Pamplin Historical Park.....I highly recommend these tours if you are interested.

I thought I knew all about this but I was sorely mistaken. And my biggest surprise is that I came away with a lot more respect for Ben Butler than I had in the past.

Here?s why.

Grant gave Butler 3 missions

1. Establish a secure supply base south of Richmond based on the James River.

2. Destroy/Disrupt the Richmond ? Petersburg Railway.

3. Cooperate with the Army of the Potomac against Richmond.


So after touring 7 battle sites and discussing several points, the group consensus was Butler had earned a C-/C grade. Here?s why:

1. Butler did a great job in securing and establishing City Point. This became critical for successful operations for the remainder of the war.

2. His early attacks against the rail line, while tenuous, did little to disrupt the line. But eventually he did tear up the line so it was shut down for about 2 weeks. But Civil War era rail lines were about impossible to totally destroy.

3. Butler was waiting on hearing from Grant and Meade?and they were not getting down to him. The AOP was operating in and around Spotsylvania?a little too far to cooperate with.

What is often overlooked is that this was the first time Butler had ever commanded troops in the field. He had no experience or training. He was also saddled with 2 abysmal corps commanders. CF ?Baldy? Smith was always scheming to take command of the Army and Quincy A. Gilmore, while a great engineer, was lousy infantry commander. And all three commanders loathed each other.

The Army of the James was really an ad hoc organization. And very much like Burnside?s Ninth Corps, the soldiers were good?..it was just the commanders did not measure up to them.

What Butler was was a brilliant administrator. As our guide stated, Butler was the best mayor New Orleans ever had! He was also ambitious and wanted to be president. In that very political of wars, he had to be handled with kid gloves.
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Carl S       12/25/2007 10:15:27 AM
I dont know anything about Butlers 'field command' experince.  If I recall correctly he was the Army commander, the Landing Force Commander in 20th Century USN language, for seizing naval bases for the blockade all along the Confederate states coast.  His largest operation was commanding the landing force that captured New Orleans.  He then became the local military govenor of the New Orleans region.

While running the New Orleans district Butler became hated by the local population as a symbol of Yankee oppression.  And, he became the center of endless rumors about corruption and smuggling.  One theory is he was ordered from the job at New Orleans and given command of the Army of the James to attack the Confederates South of Richmond, near Bermuda Hundred,  so as to break up the leadership of the cotton smuggling in Lousiana.  As a ambitious man Butler would naturally accquire enemys so what the truth is in the smuggling accusations is I dont know.

Butlers Army of the James had a similar stratigic mission as the pair of Union Corps Early defeated in the Shenadoah in the spring of 1864.  While Meades Army of the Potomac pinned Lees Army of Northern Virginia Butler and the other group (led by Sigel?) were to close towards Richmond.  Early more or less destroyed the Union corps in the Shenadoah and Butler never moved leaving Grants strategy crippled.  Only Meade was able to execute his part of the plan, pinnning Lee in the bloody battles of 1864.
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       12/27/2007 7:49:13 AM

I just finished a three day weekend tour of the 1864 Bermuda Hundred Campaign and the Petersburg Campaign of 1864. The guided tour was through Pamplin Historical Park.....I highly recommend these tours if you are interested.

I thought I knew all about this but I was sorely mistaken. And my biggest surprise is that I came away with a lot more respect for Ben Butler than I had in the past.

Here?s why.

Grant gave Butler 3 missions

1. Establish a secure supply base south of Richmond based on the James River.

2. Destroy/Disrupt the Richmond ? Petersburg Railway.

3. Cooperate with the Army of the Potomac against Richmond.


So after touring 7 battle sites and discussing several points, the group consensus was Butler had earned a C-/C grade. Here?s why:

1. Butler did a great job in securing and establishing City Point. This became critical for successful operations for the remainder of the war.
Whatever else you might say about that crook, "Beast" Butler was an excellent organizer logistician and engineer. He could out-McClellan McClellan.
2. His early attacks against the rail line, while tenuous, did little to disrupt the line. But eventually he did tear up the line so it was shut down for about 2 weeks. But Civil War era rail lines were about impossible to totally destroy.
You have to carry off the rails destroy the roadbed and burn all the rolling stock. Tough to do when you don't have cavalry to control the countryside through patrolling while your infantry does this. Butler didn't .

3. Butler was waiting on hearing from Grant and Meade?and they were not getting down to him. The AOP was operating in and around Spotsylvania?a little too far to cooperate with.

This was the same problem Pope and McClellan had. They also hated each other's guts. Oddly enough,  outside his own soldiers  who he went out of his way to protect as much as he could, and Congress' Radicals; EVERYBODY hated Butler's guts.

What is often overlooked is that this was the first time Butler had ever commanded troops in the field. He had no experience or training. He was also saddled with 2 abysmal corps commanders. CF ?Baldy? Smith was always scheming to take command of the Army and Quincy A. Gilmore, while a great engineer, was lousy infantry commander. And all three commanders loathed each other.
The Red River fiasco?

"Baldy" Smith was so incompetent, that Grant who showed an oddball talent for working with some of the worst commanders of the war and still get good results out of them [Burnside at Cold Harbor] could do nothing with Baldy; so he palmed that louse off on Butler.

Gilmore should have deputied under Meigs-heck Butler should have run Army Ordnance [Butler was quite a good amateur technologist], while Smith should have been sent out West to count Lakota and hopefully get a haircut in the process.  The Army of the James could have used a non-entity like MCClernard and a deputy like Buell and accomplished more than those three.

The Union Army showed an appalling aptitude for putting the wrong man into the wrong job at times

The Army of the James was really an ad hoc organization. And very much like Burnside?s Ninth Corps, the soldiers were good?..it was just the commanders did not measure up to them.
That is an understatement!
What Butler was was a brilliant administrator. As our guide stated, Butler was the best mayor New Orleans ever had! He was also ambitious and wanted to be president. In that very political of wars, he had to be handled with kid gloves.
Don't forget that Butler was also probably the biggest criminal commanding a Union Army. If there was a black market way to take Richmond, "Beast" Butler would find it.

Herald

 
Quote    Reply

CJH       12/29/2007 9:14:09 PM
"The Union Army showed an appalling aptitude for putting the wrong man into the wrong job at times"
 
Cronyism and politics?
 
Quote    Reply

AlbanyRifles       12/31/2007 10:36:08 AM



I just finished a three day weekend tour of the 1864 Bermuda Hundred Campaign and the Petersburg Campaign of 1864. The guided tour was through Pamplin Historical Park.....I highly recommend these tours if you are interested.



I thought I knew all about this but I was sorely mistaken. And my biggest surprise is that I came away with a lot more respect for Ben Butler than I had in the past.



Here?s why.



Grant gave Butler 3 missions



1. Establish a secure supply base south of Richmond based on the James River.



2. Destroy/Disrupt the Richmond ? Petersburg Railway.



3. Cooperate with the Army of the Potomac against Richmond.





So after touring 7 battle sites and discussing several points, the group consensus was Butler had earned a C-/C grade. Here?s why:



1. Butler did a great job in securing and establishing City Point. This became critical for successful operations for the remainder of the war.


Whatever else you might say about that crook, "Beast" Butler was an excellent organizer logistician and engineer. He could out-McClellan McClellan.
2. His early attacks against the rail line, while tenuous, did little to disrupt the line. But eventually he did tear up the line so it was shut down for about 2 weeks. But Civil War era rail lines were about impossible to totally destroy.
You have to carry off the rails destroy the roadbed and burn all the rolling stock. Tough to do when you don't have cavalry to control the countryside through patrolling while your infantry does this. Butler didn't .
 
Actually, at the Battle of Port Walthall Junction, Swift Mill and Chester Station the Union Army did all of these things.  however, AOJ was not able to hold the rail line permanently so the Confederates brought in fresh equipment from Richmond and rebuilt.  And Butler had 2 divisions of cavalry, Wilson's and Kautz's.  However, both divisions would be wrecked durign the disasterous Wilson-Kautz Cavalry Raid in late June 1864.  



3. Butler was waiting on hearing from Grant and Meade?and they were not getting down to him. The AOP was operating in and around Spotsylvania?a little too far to cooperate with.


This was the same problem Pope and McClellan had. They also hated each other's guts. Oddly enough,  outside his own soldiers  who he went out of his way to protect as much as he could, and Congress' Radicals; EVERYBODY hated Butler's guts.


What is often overlooked is that this was the first time Butler had ever commanded troops in the field. He had no experience or training. He was also saddled with 2 abysmal corps commanders. CF ?Baldy? Smith was always scheming to take command of the Army and Quincy A. Gilmore, while a great engineer, was lousy infantry commander. And all three commanders loathed each other.


The Red River fiasco?

"Baldy" Smith was so incompetent, that Grant who showed an oddball talent for working with some of the worst commanders of the war and still get good results out of them [Burnside at Cold Harbor] ???????  Burnside's IXth Corps actually performed better than most of the rest of the corps of the AOP at Cold Harbor.  link do nothing with Baldy; so he palmed that louse off on Butler.   Butler's XXIVth Corps came up fromt eh AOJ to assist.  These soldiers performed decently in part of what was a bad plan.  I may fault Baldy Smith for a lot of things but I don't blame him for the Union failure at Cold Harbor.  The Union faield at Cold Harbor because the men were worn out.  The best eladers and sodliers were buried in the Wilderness and around Spotsylvania or in the hospitals of Washington.

Gilmore should have deputied under Meigs-heck Butler should have run Army Ordnance [Butler was quite a good amateur technologist], while Smith should have been sent out West to count Lakota and hopefully get a haircut in the process.  The Army of the James could have used a non-entity like MCClernard and a deputy like Buell and accomplished more than those three.

The Union Army showed an appalling aptitude for putting the wrong man into the wrong job at times

The Army of the James was really an ad hoc organization. And very much like Burnside?s Ninth Corps, the soldiers were good?..it was just the commanders did not measure up to them.


That is an understatement!
What Butler was was a brilliant administrator. As our guide stated, Butler was the best mayor New Orleans ever had! He was also ambitious and wanted to be president. In that very political of wars, he had to be handled with kid gloves.

Don't forget that Butler was also probably the biggest criminal commanding a Union Army. If there was a black market way to take Richmond, "Beast" Butler would find it.


Herald



 
Quote    Reply

AlbanyRifles       12/31/2007 10:44:31 AM

"The Union Army showed an appalling aptitude for putting the wrong man into the wrong job at times"

 

Cronyism and politics?


Remember that the Civil War was the ultimate in political wars.  Lincoln had to hold the nation and government together.  To do that he had to appease politicians on both sides of the aisle.  Since military succes usually allowed for political success, Lincoln had to appoint generals to ensure the support of the Democratic Party during the war.  Men like McClernand, Butler, Meagher and Segal brought the vital constituencies of the Democratic strongholds of Illinois, Massachussetts, Irish Immigrants and German Immigrants to the Union fold.  Each fought with varying degrees of ability but each also perfomred, in some cases, better than their "professional" counter parts (Banks, Gilmore, Smith, etc.)
So if it was cronyism and politics it was out of necessity.  And also remember there was no CGSC or War College for these guys to go to in order to learn how to be effective general officers.  They had to OJT. 
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       1/1/2008 8:45:53 AM




"The Union Army showed an appalling aptitude for putting the wrong man into the wrong job at times"



 



Cronyism and politics?




Remember that the Civil War was the ultimate in political wars.  Lincoln had to hold the nation and government together.  To do that he had to appease politicians on both sides of the aisle.  Since military succes usually allowed for political success, Lincoln had to appoint generals to ensure the support of the Democratic Party during the war.  Men like McClernand, Butler, Meagher and Segal brought the vital constituencies of the Democratic strongholds of Illinois, Massachussetts, Irish Immigrants and German Immigrants to the Union fold.  Each fought with varying degrees of ability but each also perfomred, in some cases, better than their "professional" counter parts (Banks, Gilmore, Smith, etc.)

So if it was cronyism and politics it was out of necessity.  And also remember there was no CGSC or War College for these guys to go to in order to learn how to be effective general officers.  They had to OJT. 

McClernard-scheming conniver but not totally hopeless. He needed to be sent on a haircut party to learn soldiering against somebody competent like Chief Red Cloud.

Butler was misused. That little fat bastard  was actually a lot more capable than many would assume.  Judging by what ACTUALLY happened at Fort Fisher,  (One of the most desperate assault actions ever fought in the Civil War, or any war by the US Army), I wasn't surprised that Butler chickened out, and called it off the first time around. It took some great work by Porter and the Navy, as well as some astute Alfred Terry generalship and a lot of MoH heroics  that would make that Dutchman, Coehoorn, proud, to reduce the place. Grant wasn't there, and him relieving Butler, while justified, was unfair on the grounds cited..

Meagher is a crying shame. That man actually was a great brigade commander.

Franz Sigel (pronounced Sea Gull) was a natural born gunner. He should never have commanded anything but artillery. What he did to that boob, Earl van Dorn at Pea Ridge with brass 12 pounders is classic Civil War artillery at its best. 

Herald
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    About Cold Harbor.   1/1/2008 11:29:43 AM
Burnside should have really pushed hard at Early's left at Cold Harbor. That would have been the wrong from Grant's understanding of Lee's communications, but a forced Confederate withdrawal from that horrible ground would have left Lee strung out, Early isolated [swamps]and would have split the ANV in two. Bad reconnaissance was the culprit, here . Baldy Smith was tardy and didn't do his job on the Union left to support Hancock. Burnside,on the right, at least read the ground, and if he didn't read it properly in the overall battlespace, at least he read it properly to his front if not to his right. He learned SOMETHING from Fredericksburg. Witness his subsequent attempts to support Col. Pheasanton's plan at the Battle of the Crater, when he was overruled by the Snapping Turtle and Grant. Burnside was unjustly relieved for finally glomming onto a good plan and actually TRAINING the TROOPS for it, only to be overruled as to using them, and then was politically cashiered for the disaster.

Herald

 
Quote    Reply



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2009StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy