Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
The French "Union" Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Scramjets - France where are you?
DropBear    4/11/2007 7:10:54 AM
Been reading alot about scramjets lately and I am clearly feeling embarrassed on behalf of the French. Why aren't you a first tier nation in this regard??? I find it somewhat sad that you chaps can produce average quality aerospace products (some have been rather dubious to say the least)but you seem to only make it into second tier status on the world stage with hypersonics and scarmjet technology. Surely you blokes have one or two scientists/engineers that can mix it with the Swedes, Indians and Russians? Obviously you have along way to go before you get anywhere near the USA or Oz for that matter, but surely if you can build high speed trains then you can go that extra step? I'm sure Oz would be happy to help outr smaller, younger cousins in this field, but would like to be able to pick up an engineering article and see France up near the top. What gives? Do you have any reasons why you are not at the top or what France can do to rectify this aerospace anomaly? Curious.
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
DropBear    oops...typo   4/11/2007 7:17:01 AM
I'm sure Oz would be happy to help out our smaller, younger cousins in this field, but I would like to be able to pick up an engineering article and see France up near the top.
Quote    Reply

french stratege       4/11/2007 6:06:56 PM
A Dropbear, you should learn maybe French?
We are in leading nations on this subject.Don't bother.
I will answer you with facts next days.
Quote    Reply

DropBear       4/11/2007 11:54:27 PM
I prefer English thanks (as do most people on this planet).
Can't wait to hear this exciting development from you. Will be pleased to see you blokes have finally dragged yourselves into tier one alongside the rest of us (if what you provide can be verified).
Look forward to some hard data.
Quote    Reply

french stratege       4/28/2007 9:00:46 AM
The small Oz team has achieved a very good results in scramjets.However the maximum speed they obtain was because they use a ballistic trajectory so they achieved this speed during descent with no net thrust.However they proved their concept allowed stabilized supersonic combustion
However scramjet means supersonic combustion statos and supersonic combustion can only be achieved with hydrogen.
Hydrogens even of liquid form (density = 0,071!) means enormous tanks and is absolutely useless for military means (except a reusable single stage military space shuttle - and even I don't think scramjet is the right path for this kind of application - I trust more a concept like Russian Ajax which is more promising and other cocept with dense fuels).
Now France is world leader in RAMJETS which are of military use unless scramjets.
See ASMP-A which have a 600 km range for a one ton missile with a 150 kg warhead (compare to Yakhont - 3,5 t, 350 kg warhead and half range - LOL)
We got the world record in Ramjet speed from 1962 to 1980 when USA slightly beat us with a new program.
Our STATALTEX ramjet reached Mach 5 in ...1962! By itself and with kerozen.
We continue on ramjet with concept like integrated stato or ruggerized stato for military applications.
For scramjet no need to go fast and we are partnering  with russians.But we are probably above you on technology!
We are the only one to have a ground facility allowing test of ramjet until mach 12.
Buy that:
Craig Covault, "French Flight Test Rocket-Ramjet Missile," Aviation Week and Space Technology, Vol. 142, No. 9, February 1995, p. 22.
USA do not partner with us in this matter BECAUSE we don't want.
Here 3 articles on french ramjets (I know you would not even read it as you are unable to go checks facts but other US readers could be interest:ed)
and history :
You can also buy this article from american AIAA
Here stataltex is 1962:" width=490 border=0>
Quote    Reply

french stratege       4/28/2007 9:44:55 AM
NOW see what is the US DOD assessment on ramjet technology in 2006:
DOD is US department of defense.
A Review of United States Air Force and Department of Defense Aerospace Propulsion Needs (2006)
Quote    Reply

Softwar    Solid Fuel Ramjets   4/30/2007 4:55:14 PM
I noted the articles stated that France was a leader in "liquid" fuel ramjets.  The days are numbered for liquid fuel systems.  The last US liquid fuel system is the Seasnake (aka Talos) which is a barnburner even for a 1950s legacy missile.  The coming thing in ramjets is solid fuel - much more compact and better performance.  We already have the GQM-163 operational and in production.  Here are a couple of snips from Orbital Sciences - you know - they make Pegasus - an air dropped satellite launch vehicle.... (e.g. 18,000 mph).
The GQM-163A "Coyote" target missile design integrates a four-inlet, solid-fuel ducted rocket ramjet propulsion system into a compact missile airframe 18 feet long and 14 inches in diameter. Ramjet supersonic takeover speed is achieved using a decommissioned Navy MK 70 solid rocket motor for the first stage. Rail-launched from Navy test and training ranges, the highly maneuverable GQM-163A Coyote achieves cruise speeds of Mach 2.5+ following the separation of the MK 70 first-stage booster. The range of the target vehicle system is approximately 50 nautical miles at altitudes of less than 20 feet above the sea surface.
The target missile verified several vehicle performance standards, including the booster ignition, stable first-stage flight, the transition of the ducted-rocket ramjet from booster separation to started inlets, and the ducted rocket ramjet ignition and powered flight performance. The SSST was also flown along a simulated operational trajectory culminating in a descent to 15 feet above the surface of the ocean while under active control of an on-board laser altimeter, and demonstrated threshold level horizontal weave maneuvers over the full terminal maneuver distance required.
Quote    Reply