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Subject: Verdun
Elbandeedo    9/17/2004 9:30:43 AM
I've been doing a lot of reading lately on WWI, in particular the battles in and around Verdun. While I'm still testy about the French stance on Iraq, I have to give credit to brave men, and am having some sympathy for the French/Euorpean view of war - the loss of several generations in two major wars would cause anyone to have pause and take serious any consideration of war. All that aside, one of the more heroic battles in the Verdun sector which I am finding fascinating, is Lt. Col. Emile Driants' last stand and those battles some of his light infantry fought. Driant was a soldier who retired from service (or resigned) due to being passed over for a promotion. He went into politics, forming strong political ties to powerful men in the French government. At the advent of WWI, he joined back up, and was assigned command of two battalions of Chassuers or light infantry. He was assigned to the Verdun sector and immediately discovered that it had been stripped by the high command of personnel and equipment, and defenses were sorely lacking. He shot a message up through political channels which drew significant flak, and a sarcastic response from Petaine, who said that the sector was secure. Of course, it wasn't. Driant used his own money and that of wealthy locals to reinforce the area by building concrete bunkers - using private funds and his men. When the attack finally came, it started with the largest bombardment ever in the history of warfare. approximately 80,000 shells fell in an area smaller than 1 sq. kilometre. the woods were decimated, the trenches nearly disappeared. As the remnants of his command dug out, one trooper claimed that only 1 in five men were unharmed, 2 in five were alive. initially, units held strong, but fell back after suffering more losses. Lt. Col. Driant rallied his men and shocked the Germans with a ferocious counterattack, retaking several key positions. His men continued to hold for another day, but finally on February 22, they had to fall back. Driant and his commanders burned their papers and began to retreat - but Driant saw a wounded trooper and stopped to give aid - and was himself killed. He gave of his personal assets selflessly to secure his beloved homeland and he paid the final price of freedom defending her. A true hero, and an example of leadership. Elbandeedo
 
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Elbandeedo    RE:Verdun -numbers   9/17/2004 9:42:15 AM
I forgot to mention: Driants two battalions numbered roughly 1200 men prior to the attack. roughly 500 men, most of them wounded survived the two-day battle. E.
 
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verdunjp    RE:Verdun   2/15/2005 8:21:34 PM
I am also very interested by that battle.
 
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CJH    RE:Verdun   3/9/2005 9:07:29 PM
The French did suffer terribly in WWI but you have to observe they did not use every opportunity to head off that war. Britain, France and Germany spent many years making that war inevitable and then on the eve of the war were irresponsible in the way they let their bureaucracies drag them into it. It was self inflicted suffering. The original Russian operational plan had called for an attack on the Austro-Hungarians and the Balkans which was probably strategically sound. However, the French who were pressed by more immediate concerns than the unfolding of a winning strategy talked the Russians into an ill conceived direct attack on German East Prussia which resulted in the anhillation of a Russian army. The Russians remained mired in a stalemate with the Germans until despair over the war led people to join the Bolsheviks in their revolution. I believe that had the US not intervened in WWI all of the combatants would have gone through the same revolution experience the Russians went through and therefore there never could have been a WWII.
 
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CJH    RE:Verdun   3/9/2005 9:07:49 PM
The French did suffer terribly in WWI but you have to observe they did not use every opportunity to head off that war. Britain, France and Germany spent many years making that war inevitable and then on the eve of the war were irresponsible in the way they let their bureaucracies drag them into it. It was self inflicted suffering. The original Russian operational plan had called for an attack on the Austro-Hungarians and the Balkans which was probably strategically sound. However, the French who were pressed by more immediate concerns than the unfolding of a winning strategy talked the Russians into an ill conceived direct attack on German East Prussia which resulted in the anhillation of a Russian army. The Russians remained mired in a stalemate with the Germans until despair over the war led people to join the Bolsheviks in their revolution. I believe that had the US not intervened in WWI all of the combatants would have gone through the same revolution experience the Russians went through and therefore there never could have been a WWII.
 
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verdunjp    RE:Verdun to CJH   3/10/2005 1:15:00 PM
CJH wrote: "Britain, France and Germany spent many years making that war inevitable" According to me, Germany should be considered as the only responsable for WW1. On the subject, I suggest the reading of the classic "origine of WW1" written by the german Fritz Fisher. regards, JP
 
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CJH    RE:Verdun to CJH   3/11/2005 1:20:54 PM
Hi verdunjp, I cannot disagree with the notion that Germany was the primary country responsible but I would disagree that it was the only one responsible. The French were spoiling for a chance to get even with Germany for 1870. They got it by 1920.
 
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editor    RE: Who started it   3/18/2005 5:20:36 PM
I think it's in Nancy where there is a museum showing pre-war posters crying out over the loss of Lorraine - the French were itching for the chance to settle the score. Also, the expectation of war was high as early as the turn of the century throughout Europe, and not just over territory. I'll have to read the book you suggested, but even with Germany as the de facto aggressor they had plenty of company.
 
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CJH    RE:Verdun to CJH   3/19/2005 8:59:51 PM
verdunjp, Are you in Verdun or from Verdun? I and my wife were there to tour the battlefield and ossarium in 1975.
 
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verdunjp    RE:Verdun to CJH   3/23/2005 12:34:14 PM
Hi CHJ, Verdunjp is only my code name for forum. I am from Canada. I have simply choose that name because the battle of Verdun is quite interresting. Best regards, JP
 
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verdunjp    RE: Who started it   3/23/2005 12:51:14 PM
It is right to say that France had at the beginning of the 20th century the desire to take back Alsace-Lorraine but nothing was realy prepare do do it because at that time, France realize that his interest was in his colonies and not in Europe. In the other hand, Germany had realy made long term plans and politics to make WWI inevitable in Europe. Best regards, Verdunjp
 
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