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Subject: S.U.S.T.A.I.N....Marines In Spaaace!
SCCOMarine    3/14/2008 4:56:47 PM
The Marine Corps has quietly, over the past 6 or 7yrs, been shaping the Forced Entry and Crisis Response capability of the next millenium w/ NASA and Aero-Space Industries. It's called SUSTAIN-Small Unit Space Transport and Insertion. By seizing on the emerging SCRAM-Jet technologies they are in early development w/ the Industry towards a series SCRAM-Jets capable of Deploying 13-20 man Squads of Marines. SCRAM-Jets are Hyper-Sonic Air/Space Craft that break the earth's atmosphere then skim across it at speeds of Mach 4 thru Mach 10. They will be able to deploy a company-sized Expeditionary Unit of DO Capable Marines anywhere in the world in 2HRs or less. The list of missions range fr/ Crisis Response and In-Extremis Hostage Rescue to QRF for SOF, capable of re-inforcing Special Operations Missions world wide at a moments notice.
 
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JFKY       4/1/2008 9:11:10 PM
The Scramjet may or may NOT be coming...I remember when 2001 was the FUTURE, and there aren't any fusion reactor powered plasma drive inter-planetary spaceships, and may never be.
 
And for your edification, most "emergencies" aren't really emergencies...the embassy could see it coming for a week or so in advance, BUT no one wanted to do anything that might "exacerbate" the situation.  So this is a mission that can just as easily be filled, by conventionally bringing the ARG into range in the lead-up or by deploying extra embassy guards in the run-up.
 
And by self-recover I mean, they can fly away, on their own after dropping off the troops.  Your scramjet hyper-sonic shuttle can't do that yet...and I keep talking about $24 billion because that's what the shuttle program costs, NOW, if we had ~20 shuttles your plan calls for.  And no, it's not a "jet" it's a SPACESHIP, it enters into space and will need all the accouterments of a spaceship.  And it will be as costly as a spaceship, with the added advantage that it won't be re-usable, because it's going to be sitting on an airfield outside of Mogadishu after the insertion, just sitting there, waiting to be RPG'd by some roving gang! 
 
Lastly, you can't secure every airfield in two hours, but let's be honest here....what you propose is what sank the Arnhem operation, you['e light infantry company is going to insert KILOMETRES from it's target and then WALK to it...in the face of opposition.  Wow, sounds like Black Hawk Down, only we don't even have Humvees, because the Space DS-320 Glider can't carry vehicles.
 
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SCCOMarine    GOP   4/1/2008 10:17:27 PM


And I agree with Horse, the mission will eventually be handed over to the 75th most likely. I would also forsee the other SOCOM/JSOC units getting involved to, just the same as what goes on now with other missions (Tier 1 guys getting the toughest/most sensitive missions, etc).




As far as using Tier 1 guys, that shows a lack of understanding for the mission. 
 
Their mission is Special Operations, a detailed finesse job =Long Planning Cycle.  CR is a small, flexible, muscle job to either be an immediate Stop Gap or to by time for a more sophisticated operation if need be...a Special Operation.
 
That would be led by a Tier 1 unit.
 
The only role to be played by the rangers would be the role they always play...security.
 
If the rangers were going to take this mission f/ the Marines they would have it, but they don't.  No disrespect to them but they don't.
 
Marines have done 10-15 of these Ops since the '90s.  How many have the rangers done?
 
 
 
The 75th would take the Marines mission  Okay, why?
 
When has a ranger BN outperformed a Marine BN, they've been on the same battlefield many times?  I can name 2 occassions when Marines were singled out for praise among them.
 
Do you think that way b/c they're part of SOCOM?  Go back to what the SOCOM request of the Corps was at the time of its creation.  
 
They wanted the Corps to rotate one Marine Infantry BN every 6mths similar to how they rotate BNs for the MEU cycles along w/ the release of all Specialized Units.
 
You discount the Marines b/c they refused(a choice) to join SOCOM and thats understandable, but check the track record b4 drawing conclusions.
 
I mean damn less than 100 Marine raided a soveign country and snatched the President out his own mansion in a matter of hours of talking shit on the phone to Collin Powell, can these young Marines get some F*cking credit. 
 
I mean Iknow its not CAG shit but its more than but its more than horse or his unit or the rangers.  At least acknowledge that.
 
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GOP       4/2/2008 12:27:34 AM














In both instances the Marines hit so hard, fast, and unexpectedly they completed both missions w/out a shot fired.







Which is just a sexed-up way of saying that in both instances the marines in question faced zero organized opposition.  Nothing fancy there. 




Haha, agreed. "Hit so hard, fast, and unexpectedly"? Dang SCCO, put down the koolaid.


 But as far as horse the 'couch commando'....
Might wanna re-assess this.

 
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SCCOMarine       4/2/2008 11:44:24 AM




















In both instances the Marines hit so hard, fast, and unexpectedly they completed both missions w/out a shot fired.









Which is just a sexed-up way of saying that in both instances the marines in question faced zero organized opposition.  Nothing fancy there. 






Haha, agreed. "Hit so hard, fast, and unexpectedly"? Dang SCCO, put down the koolaid.





 But as far as horse the 'couch commando'....


Might wanna re-assess this.




 
 
He served in the 10 Mtn, I already said that. 
 
But there's nothing to reassess, what have they ever done...  Do You Know?
 
I call him a Couch Commado b/c he's always degrading a story, like its nothing, he's been thru worse. 
 
Superman just stop a bullet w/ his eye, "Ahh, it was just a .22, I swat those like flies!" 
 
Then he has you all reciting his Bull Sh*t.  When has he or his unit(the 10 Mtn) ever done anything? 
 
Then he has you believing the rangers would take the CR mission f/ the Marines...How?  On what basis does he draw this conclusion...SOCOM?  The Corps declined to contribute Spec Units & a rotating Inf BN.
 
Performance..?  When has a ranger BN outperformed a Marine BN?
 
This is no disrepect to the rangers but perspective.  Its not their mission, never has been, never will be.
 

RECAP:
 
But thats just what horse does.  He always looks for something to say to downgrade anything involving the Marine Corps.  Its like it makes his p*ssy hurt to hear it.
 
But I forgot he has authority to talk b/c he was part of the 'elite' 10th Mtn Div. 
 
Elite for what I don't know?  The last news I heard about them was in 2002 during Anaconda when they were order to take a Mtn peak fr/ the Taliban but couldn't make it halfway up the Mtn b/c they were out of shape.
 
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SCCOMarine       4/2/2008 12:22:11 PM

And for your edification, most "emergencies" aren't really emergencies...the embassy could see it coming for a week or so in advance, BUT no one wanted to do anything that might "exacerbate" the situation.  So this is a mission that can just as easily be filled, by conventionally bringing the ARG into range in the lead-up or by deploying extra embassy guards in the run-up.



So now your a Regional Combatant Commander(CoCom) right?   Your in position to 2nd guess their calls f/ your computer in the basement.
 
In Liberia they new the Rebels & Gov't were clashing for a wk but the Foreign Citz were left alone to flee.  At that Point It was a NEO, a Non-Combatant Evacuation Operation and the ARG/MEU was on its way. 
 
But then as often happens the situation changed & they began detaining US & other westerners.   Then they began shelling the Embassy Compound.
 
Thats when the EMERGENCY or CRISIS began, requiring a Crisis Response Mission.
 
So the CoCom deployed a FAST Team to engage the rebels shelling the Embassy & clear road blocks set up by the rebels.
 
And in case ya didn't know... the Embassy is an Office Building Not a FOB, it wouldn't hold out for long.
 
 
 
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GOP       4/2/2008 12:59:24 PM
Why are you knocking the 10th Mountain division? And how is it that you feel you know his service history? I don't think he has ever listed it.
 
Im not knocking the USMC, Army, Navy, or Airforce. Im not taking sides. I just don't think there should be any name calling here. I know you served in the USMC, and you obviously have a USMC bias (which is perfectly normal and expected). However, there will always be disagreements here. Let's not let this turn into heavy sarcasm, badmouthing, and name calling. Let's keep this respectful.
 
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SCCOMarine       4/2/2008 1:27:17 PM

Why are you knocking the 10th Mountain division? And how is it that you feel you know his service history? I don't think he has ever listed it.

 
Im not knocking the USMC, Army, Navy, or Airforce. Im not taking sides. I just don't think there should be any name calling here. I know you served in the USMC, and you obviously have a USMC bias (which is perfectly normal and expected). However, there will always be disagreements here. Let's not let this turn into heavy sarcasm, badmouthing, and name calling. Let's keep this respectful.

 
 
Listen, why is this always taken to a USMC bias when I respond?   Was it an army bias when he said what he said?  No!
 
Was there any basis for what he said other than bias? 

This is about Mission Right GOP?
   He said the rangers would take the mission, on what basis?  Go back thru the Q's I asked, Answer them. 
 
As far as the personal shots at him, if some one was giving valid info on missions a particular unit has run and I constantly picked some small detail to diminished what they did,  My validity would come under fire Right?  Why is this any different?
 
He took shots, I shot back.  He does it all the time when Marine issues pop up, the rest of the Marines get quiet b/c its usually 1vs100.  When he's respectful I'm respectful.
 
Everything he said was invalid or petty, but I'm the one thats wrong, right?
 
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SCCOMarine       4/2/2008 1:52:58 PM

Why are you knocking the 10th Mountain division? And how is it that you feel you know his service history? I don't think he has ever listed it.



He mentioned it in a post about a yr ago.  But thats not the point.
 
I gave 2 ex. of how a CR Mission is executed w/ a small force to someone discounting the missions validity.  
 
He could have said Nothing.  But instead he chose to say well I guess its only if Marines are going against an unorganized force hahaha!
 
Well no less organized than the force/community that shot up TF Ranger.  Shit happens sometimes for the worse going into any enemies back yard, if he's an old salt he knows that.
 
Why would he try to diminish the actions of those young Marines, bias comes to mind b/c he does it all the time.  Do you say anything to him about that sh*t?
 
So the Q is what has he or his unit done to dismiss those missions as nothing?  Hmmm...
 
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Yimmy       4/2/2008 2:06:28 PM


 

Listen, why is this always taken to a USMC bias when I respond?  

Because you have an overly enthusiastic writing style, using too much bold and italic font, and appear to constantly spout the company line.

I doubt anyone here has anything against the American marines - however anybody who tries to constantly big themselves up makes other people want to knock them down a peg.
 
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JFKY       4/2/2008 2:10:44 PM
So now your a Regional Combatant Commander(CoCom) right?   Your in position to 2nd guess their calls f/ your computer in the basement
 
Unlike you who is no doubt high up in the Pentagon, an aide-de-camp to the Commandant, or are you working JPL on the hyper-sonic wind tunnel models of the shuttle?  So I'm reading that in your example things had been going south in Liberia for a week, just not south for the US embassy and then the Sh*te hits the fan?  And this contradicts my statement how?  Things had been going south in Liberia for a while, an answer is to move the ARG closer or to fly in extra embassy guards, not wait until bad things happen and to NOT invest in an  expensive boondoggle of an aerospace project in search of a mission and partners.
 
I'm sorry none of us here are Gates or Rumsfeld, just cogs and observers, so try to leave the attitude at home or in YOUR basement, Marine fan-boy.
 
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