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Subject: SC MAGTFs; Mini-MEUs Focused On Phase 0, Recon, & Limited Spec Ops
SCCOMarine    2/9/2008 3:21:19 PM
Security Cooperative MAGTF is the formal name for whats been called the new "Sea Duty." BN size in overall strength, they will be dispersed to various countries in Small Detachments of about 100 Marines.

The Det. base will be 1 or more DO trained Inf Platoons accompanied by various enablers. Specialists fr/ Intel, Comm, Engineers, Logistics, & w/ air support on call.

SC MAGTFs main focus will be on Phase 0 training operations in strategically important nations in Africa, Latin America, South East Asia, & the Middle East.

They can re-aggregate to perform various security and contingency operations and are also authorized to conduct Reconnaissance and some Special Operations missions.
 
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SCCOMarine       2/9/2008 3:24:11 PM

Corps to get back to its expeditionary roots

Friday Feb 8, 2008

The Corps is creating a new pre-emptive strike force unit that will put more Marines back aboard ships.

The plan, which includes creating new Security Cooperation Marine Air-Ground Task Forces, is a road map for how the service plans to fight future irregular wars and was reportedly signed off on by Commandant Gen. James Conway the week of Jan. 28.

For Marines, it means new advisory missions on top of existing requirements. And for sailors, it will mean a steady reliance on the amphibious fleet.

In recent years, with Marines committed to a long-term presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Navy's gator force has, at times, deployed without Marines on unique missions, such as chasing pirates off Africa or using a big-deck amphib as a floating health clinic in Asia.

But that may soon be adjusted under the new operational concept, known informally as "The Long War" brief.

The emerging "long war" will put new demands on the Corps, Conway said in the report.

"Paramount among these demands will be the requirement for Marines to train and mentor the security forces of partner nations in a manner that empowers their governments to secure their own countries," he said.

Based on threat assessments projected through 2015, Marines face a spectrum of operations, the report said: stability and support; small wars and counterinsurgency; humanitarian assistance, disaster relief and nation-building; peacekeeping operations; combating terrorism; counterproliferation and nonproliferation; combating drug trafficking and crime; and non-combatant evacuation operations.

"There will be fewer high-spectrum combat operations that require our Marines to bring the full force of our combined arms capabilities to bear," according to the report.

Under the "Long War" plan, Marine expeditionary units will continue to be the "vanguard" first responders of the Corps. The Corps also will forward-deploy more Marines in the Western Pacific through a combination of permanently forward-based forces and forces sourced through the re-establishment of the Unit Deployment Program.

Central to Conway?s plan is the creation of the new units — the SC MAGTFs — to handle the building of partner-nation capacity, including requirements for civil-military operations and training less-developed military forces, the plan said. The unit will be "'eyes forward' in areas not previously accessible to U.S. military forces," and will be used as an operational reconnaissance asset capable of taking on some special-operations missions.

Makeup, staffing

It will be made up of ground, logistics and aviation combat elements, and standing SC MAGTFs will support Africa, Southwest Asia and South America.

The SC MAGTFs would be staffed with officers and noncommissioned officers educated in specific micro-regions and Marines who are native speakers of the languages in the region.

"Among these changed practices is the implementation of a regional focus for units that source this new capability [SC MAGTF]," according to an introduction signed by Conway. "Through this initiative, changes to manpower policies will enable the development of linguistically adept, culturally aware units for training foreign military forces across the globe."

The plan underscores the Corps' naval roots — a sensitive subject for Conway, who recently lamented that many of today's young Marines have remained landlocked.

"We now have a generation of men and women who do not have a complete understanding of what expeditionary is," he said to reporters Feb 1. "That people now believe that three square meals a day courtesy of KBR and a cot is expeditionary, that is just not true in most of the environments where we would expect to find ourselves in the early going of a contingency."

It's back to the blue-green team.

"In the future, more Marines than ever will be deployed aboard Navy and Coast Guard shipping," the report said.

The new initiative comes as the Corps works to get the deployment cycles back to normal, the report said. The Corps' 27 active-duty infantry battalions — up from its current 24, a goal to be realized under its ramp-up to an end strength of 202,000 by 2011 — would allow forces to operate on a 1-to-2 deployment-to-dwell ratio. Under the scheme, nine battalions would be forward-deployed at any one time — three with Marine expeditionary units, three forward-deployed on Guam and Okinawa, and three SC MAGTFs — while 18 conducted full-spectrum training.

"This increase in deployment-to-dwell rotation cycle combined with the Marine Corps' growth in force structure will result in the ability to train to full spectrum operations while projecting Marines to locations across the globe where they can provide the most lasting effect," the report said.

As a more detailed vision of the "soft power" elements in the new Maritime Strategy, released in October, the SC MAGTF is in spirit with the Navy?s "global fleet station," a ship or group of ships deployed to a specific region with embarked local-language speakers and training cadres.

The most recent GFS set sail in mid-October when the Little Creek, Va.-based dock landing ship Fort McHenry steamed for the west coast of Africa to serve as a floating "partnership station," building relations with the militaries and civilians in the nations of the strategically important Gulf of Guinea. It was joined recently by the High Speed Vessel Swift.

According to the 52-page "Long War" document, "mission success" for continually forward-deployed Marines will rely on available transport via naval forces.

"More than ever before, our linkage with the Navy must be firm and based on shared understanding and vision," it states. "The Marine Corps must maintain its Naval roots to shape the environment and effectively deter adversaries."

 
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SCCOMarine    Regional Experts   2/11/2008 5:41:55 PM

Corps to get back to its expeditionary roots

......Makeup, staffing

.......It will be made up of ground, logistics and aviation combat elements, and standing SC MAGTFs will support Africa, Southwest Asia and South America.

The SC MAGTFs would be staffed with officers and noncommissioned officers educated in specific micro-regions and Marines who are native speakers of the languages in the region.

"Among these changed practices is the implementation of a regional focus for units that source this new capability [SC MAGTF]," according to an introduction signed by Conway. "Through this initiative, changes to manpower policies will enable the development of linguistically adept, culturally aware units for training foreign military forces across the globe."




Starting in SGT's Course the MC is assigning every E-5/SGT & above 1 of 24 Micro-Regions of the world to specialize in receiving over 160hrs of Language Training in their Region. 
 
Marines will be required to advance in their perspective Regions thru On base Language Centers and Distance Learning Programs.  Their progress will be measured yearly and will count towards Promotion...or Discharge.
 
By the time a Marine reaches the rank of Gunnery Sgt/E-7(about 13yrs) they will reach a level of profiency in their "Micro-Regions" equivalent to a Regional Area Officer, what they call a RAO-minus.   RAO is a DOD rating assigned to Commission Officers w/a certain level of Foreign Area knowledge, Language skills, & Time in country.
 
Quote    Reply

papanik1       2/12/2008 9:03:28 AM

Security Cooperative MAGTF is the formal name for whats been called the new "Sea Duty." BN size in overall strength, they will be dispersed to various countries in Small Detachments of about 100 Marines.

The Det. base will be 1 or more DO trained Inf Platoons accompanied by various enablers. Specialists fr/ Intel, Comm, Engineers, Logistics, & w/ air support on call.

SC MAGTFs main focus will be on Phase 0 training operations in strategically important nations in Africa, Latin America, South East Asia, & the Middle East.

They can re-aggregate to perform various security and contingency operations and are also authorized to conduct Reconnaissance and some Special Operations missions.
Does this come from somekind of open source publication? Seems strange to use DO platoons (do they exist alreaddy? and even if they do  are they not in essence capable light infantry platoons, organised to cover more ground and use air support much more proficiently?)for a training-recon -limited specialops missions?
It would seem more effective to base such an organisation around a MARSOC Company with MSOAG and DA teams, plus inf (DO) support

 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Papanik   2/12/2008 11:48:53 AM
Does this come from somekind of open source publication? --The whole article above touches on it:

"...Based on threat assessments projected through 2015, Marines face a spectrum of operations, the report said: stability and support; small wars and counterinsurgency; humanitarian assistance, disaster relief and nation-building; peacekeeping operations; combating terrorism; counterproliferation and nonproliferation; combating drug trafficking and crime; and non-combatant evacuation operations.

Central to Conway's plan is the creation of the new units — the SC MAGTFs — to handle the building of partner-nation capacity, including requirements for civil-military operations and training less-developed military forces, the plan said. The unit will be "'eyes forward' in areas not previously accessible to U.S. military forces," and will be used as an operational reconnaissance asset capable of taking on some special-operations missions
..."
 
link --13pg Brief by Gen Natonski touches on somethings.
link --A Power Point Slide.
 
The overall concept is newly released, but the different moving parts to this I've posted info on for the past yr.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Papanik   2/12/2008 11:52:13 AM
 
 
--link Brief by Gen Natonski touches on somethings.
--link Power Point Slide.
 
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Papanik   2/12/2008 11:56:06 AM
 Close the spaces to get to the link.
 
--www .ifpafletcherconference. com/oldtranscripts/2007/Natonski. pdf   --13pg Brief by Gen Natonski touches on somethings.
--www .ifpafletcherconference. com/oldpowrpoint/2007/Natonski_%20Brief%20Session_3. ppt   --A Power Point Slide.
 
 
Quote    Reply

papanik1       2/12/2008 12:25:45 PM

 Close the spaces to get to the link.

 

--www .ifpafletcherconference. com/oldtranscripts/2007/Natonski. pdf   --13pg Brief by Gen Natonski touches on somethings.

--www .ifpafletcherconference. com/oldpowrpoint/2007/Natonski_%20Brief%20Session_3. ppt   --A Power Point Slide.

 


thanks SCCOMarine very informational.
 
Getting back to MARSOC, there is new info about the new Individual Training (4 phases and a lot like Special Forces Training)
 
The first phase of the course will be about 65 days includéng combat medicine, communication, fire support, special reconnaissance, planning, weapons and tactics and survival, escape resistance and evasion.

The second phase, about 44 days, will include further training and application in special reconnaissance, training, communication, weapons/tactics plus two weeks of training in DA.

The 3rd phase will include Foreign Internal Defense, plus information operations, Advanced Special Operations, Unconventional Warfare and a 14-day exercise (my remark: Something like a scaled down Robin Sage?)

Last stage will be about 50 training days in language and culture training, plus sustainment training on the previous phases.

There will be a reorganisation of MARSOC in 14man MSO Teams, several of them making a MSOC
 
Know any details?
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Papanik   2/12/2008 12:55:08 PM
"Seems strange to use DO platoons (do they exist alreaddy? and even if they do  are they not in essence capable light infantry platoons, organised to cover more ground and use air support much more proficiently?)for a training-recon -limited specialops missions?"
 
1st, SC MAGTFs are a Task Organized response to formal requests fr/ both Regional Combatant Commands(CentCom, PacCom, etc) & USSOCOM to the USMC for a Foward Deployed Force that can operate in Phase 0 enviroments w/a persistent presence. 
 
Phase 0 training isn't new to the MC, everytime a MEU(SOC) goes out there's usually only 1 Co. on ship, the rest are doing Bi-lateral training in Yemen, Kenya, Jordan, Eritrea,etc.  But it is not a persistent presence in any particular country.
 
There are also Phase 0 specific Dets like UNITAS-to Latin America, WATC-to W. Africa, & LF CARAT to SE Asia that go back 10yrs that are the base format of the SC MAGTF.
 
 
2nd, I think your unsure if Reg Marine Inf can handle the Advisory role.  The concept takes its lead fr/ one of the most successful programs of the Vietnam War the Combined Action Platoon.
 
A CAP was a reinforced Marine Inf Squad of 15 led by a E-5/SGT that operated virtually autonomously by embedding into a Village, Raising a Local Miltia, & then taking Offensive action against Viet Cong Cells in a AOR preset by Higher HQs until they were wiped out.
 
This was repeated in Iraq and was the basis for what led to the Sunni Awakening in 2006.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Papanik   2/12/2008 12:59:14 PM


thanks SCCOMarine very informational.

Getting back to MARSOC, there is new info about the new Individual Training (4 phases and a lot like Special Forces Training)

The first phase of the course will be about 65 days includéng combat medicine, communication, fire support, special reconnaissance, planning, weapons and tactics and survival, escape resistance and evasion.

The second phase, about 44 days, will include further training and application in special reconnaissance, training, communication, weapons/tactics plus two weeks of training in DA.

The 3rd phase will include Foreign Internal Defense, plus information operations, Advanced Special Operations, Unconventional Warfare and a 14-day exercise (my remark: Something like a scaled down Robin Sage?)

Last stage will be about 50 training days in language and culture training, plus sustainment training on the previous phases.

There will be a reorganisation of MARSOC in 14man MSO Teams, several of them making a MSOC

Know any details?



Yeah some, anything specific you want to know?
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Papanik   2/12/2008 2:18:58 PM
I can find articles for you, but some general info right now is that they(MARSOC) are really aggressively going after the UW as their future.
 
They are reducing the number of MSOCs for right now fr/ 9 to 8 and putting the extra personnel into the MSOAG increasing the # of teams fr/ 24 to 30 and the # of personnel per team fr/ 11 to 14 to be more on base w/ the MSOTs.
 
I don't know exactly how the new structure of the new MSOAG team will look but I know the present structure is:
1x 0-4/Major Tm Ldr;
1x 0-3/Cpt Ass. Tm Ldr;
1x E-7/Gunnery Sgt Infantry Unit Ldr;
1x Communications Specialist;
1x Navy Corpsman/Medic;
6x Grunts:
1x 0331-Machine Gunner; 1x 0341-Mortarman; 1x 0351-Assaultman; & 3x 0311 Rifleman.
 
I heard talk about 6mths ago about about adding a Combat Engineer and either an 0231-Intel Specialist or an 0211-Counter-Intel Specialist
 
The CE billets won't be hard to fill but the Intel billets may take yrs to fill b/c of demand. 
 
Who knows who the 14th billet would be?
 
Quote    Reply

papanik1       2/12/2008 2:47:56 PM

I can find articles for you, but some general info right now is that they(MARSOC) are really aggressively going after the UW as their future.

 

They are reducing the number of MSOCs for right now fr/ 9 to 8 and putting the extra personnel into the MSOAG increasing the # of teams fr/ 24 to 30 and the # of personnel per team fr/ 11 to 14 to be more on base w/ the MSOTs.

 

I don't know exactly how the new structure of the new MSOAG team will look but I know the present structure is:

1x 0-4/Major Tm Ldr;

1x 0-3/Cpt Ass. Tm Ldr;

1x E-7/Gunnery Sgt Infantry Unit Ldr;

1x Communications Specialist;

1x Navy Corpsman/Medic;

6x Grunts:

1x 0331-Machine Gunner; 1x 0341-Mortarman; 1x 0351-Assaultman; & 3x 0311 Rifleman.

 

I heard talk about 6mths ago about about adding a Combat Engineer and either an 0231-Intel Specialist or an 0211-Counter-Intel Specialist

 

The CE billets won't be hard to fill but the Intel billets may take yrs to fill b/c of demand. 

 

Who knows who the 14th billet would be?


Thanks again! One thing that looks certain  SCCOMarine, is that a MSOC will also be made up by MSOTs of 14 men, and current MSOG Teams will get to be 14-man, also commanded by a Cpt,  not a major. Remember the cuurent make up of 1 DASR platoon and a Security Platoon will go away and a MSOC will be about 70-80 instead of 120, commanded by a major.
 
It looks like the introduction of "heavy" infantry MOSs like 0331 etc. in MSOAG Teams, is a temporary measure too, since the way the training regimen looks, (much like Special Forces) will enable them to take any combat arms MOS and mold the specialties.
 
There is some info on MARSOC website, check out "Q & R".
 
What I am trying to figure out is if a MSOC will be made by 3-4 MSOTs (all personel 0321/ex FR)  or if it is going to be a "mixed bag" of say 2-3 "ruck teams" (MSOTs) specialising more in FID etc and 2-3 MSOTs with more emphasis on DASR and with Scuba/HALO capabilities (as was/is the case with Force Recon and current DASR Platoons.
 
The way the MARSOC site puts it, (and some official statements) MSOAG and MSOB marines will "converge" regarding capabilities, and the teams will be almost interchangeable, with the first specialising more on FID and the later in DASR.
 
Practically, I a not sure they have it cleared out yet  

 
Quote    Reply

papanik1       2/12/2008 2:48:00 PM

I can find articles for you, but some general info right now is that they(MARSOC) are really aggressively going after the UW as their future.

 

They are reducing the number of MSOCs for right now fr/ 9 to 8 and putting the extra personnel into the MSOAG increasing the # of teams fr/ 24 to 30 and the # of personnel per team fr/ 11 to 14 to be more on base w/ the MSOTs.

 

I don't know exactly how the new structure of the new MSOAG team will look but I know the present structure is:

1x 0-4/Major Tm Ldr;

1x 0-3/Cpt Ass. Tm Ldr;

1x E-7/Gunnery Sgt Infantry Unit Ldr;

1x Communications Specialist;

1x Navy Corpsman/Medic;

6x Grunts:

1x 0331-Machine Gunner; 1x 0341-Mortarman; 1x 0351-Assaultman; & 3x 0311 Rifleman.

 

I heard talk about 6mths ago about about adding a Combat Engineer and either an 0231-Intel Specialist or an 0211-Counter-Intel Specialist

 

The CE billets won't be hard to fill but the Intel billets may take yrs to fill b/c of demand. 

 

Who knows who the 14th billet would be?


Thanks again! One thing that looks certain  SCCOMarine, is that a MSOC will also be made up by MSOTs of 14 men, and current MSOG Teams will get to be 14-man, also commanded by a Cpt,  not a major. Remember the cuurent make up of 1 DASR platoon and a Security Platoon will go away and a MSOC will be about 70-80 instead of 120, commanded by a major.
 
It looks like the introduction of "heavy" infantry MOSs like 0331 etc. in MSOAG Teams, is a temporary measure too, since the way the training regimen looks, (much like Special Forces) will enable them to take any combat arms MOS and mold the specialties.
 
There is some info on MARSOC website, check out "Q & R".
 
What I am trying to figure out is if a MSOC will be made by 3-4 MSOTs (all personel 0321/ex FR)  or if it is going to be a "mixed bag" of say 2-3 "ruck teams" (MSOTs) specialising more in FID etc and 2-3 MSOTs with more emphasis on DASR and with Scuba/HALO capabilities (as was/is the case with Force Recon and current DASR Platoons.
 
The way the MARSOC site puts it, (and some official statements) MSOAG and MSOB marines will "converge" regarding capabilities, and the teams will be almost interchangeable, with the first specialising more on FID and the later in DASR.
 
Practically, I a not sure they have it cleared out yet  

 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Answer in 2 Parts   2/12/2008 3:46:46 PM



I don't know exactly how the new structure of the new MSOAG team will look but I know the present structure is:
1x 0-4/Major Tm Ldr;
1x 0-3/Cpt Ass. Tm Ldr;
1x E-7/Gunnery Sgt Infantry Unit Ldr;
1x Communications Specialist;
1x Navy Corpsman/Medic;
6x Grunts:
1x 0331-Machine Gunner; 1x 0341-Mortarman; 1x 0351-Assaultman; & 3x 0311 Rifleman.

I heard talk about 6mths ago about about adding a Combat Engineer and either an 0231-Intel Specialist or an 0211-Counter-Intel Specialist



Thanks again! One thing that looks certain  SCCOMarine, is that a MSOC will also be made up by MSOTs of 14 men, and current MSOG Teams will get to be 14-man, also commanded by a Cpt,  not a major. Remember the cuurent make up of 1 DASR platoon and a Security Platoon will go away and a MSOC will be about 70-80 instead of 120, commanded by a major.

It looks like the introduction of "heavy" infantry MOSs like 0331 etc. in MSOAG Teams, is a temporary measure too, since the way the training regimen looks, (much like Special Forces) will enable them to take any combat arms MOS and mold the specialties.
 

I think you may have some misunderstandings on the original MSOAG personnel structure &  purpose.  The original 11man teams deployed w/Major as team ldr, once in country the Major would seperate fr/ the team and Advise the BN-Regimental Staffs of the host country.
 
Also
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    sorry computer glich   2/12/2008 5:11:09 PM

I think you may have some misunderstandings on the original MSOAG personnel structure &  purpose.  The original 11man teams deployed w/Major as team ldr, once in country the Major would seperate fr/ the team and Advise the BN-Regimental Staffs of the host country.
Also


Also the 3 Heavy Weapons Specialist (Mortar, MG, Assault) weren't limited to those assignments but recruited from them, then they're trained Spec Operators.
When your mission is to train a bunch of Yahoo's fr/ the sticks the finer points of the proper employment of their Mortar or MG sections you don't want to use a guy who took a 3wk Mortar course as part of his SO training to lead the course. 
 
You want a guy who spent his 1st 3-5yrs leading a Mortar team, train him up fr/ there as a Spec Operator then turn him lose on the natives.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    2nd Part   2/12/2008 6:40:43 PM

What I am trying to figure out is if a MSOC will be made by 3-4 MSOTs (all personel 0321/ex FR)  or if it is going to be a "mixed bag" of say 2-3 "ruck teams" (MSOTs) specialising more in FID etc and 2-3 MSOTs with more emphasis on DASR and with Scuba/HALO capabilities (as was/is the case with Force Recon and current DASR Platoons.
 
The way the MARSOC site puts it, (and some official statements) MSOAG and MSOB marines will "converge" regarding capabilities, and the teams will be almost interchangeable, with the first specialising more on FID and the later in DASR.
Practically, I a not sure they have it cleared out yet 


There's a lot of Parts to this post, I can give you what I know. 
 
Presently most members of the DASRs fr/ the 4 previous MSOCs were fr/ FR.  But w/ the restructuring I think thats what you want to know right?
 
Will all members of the 14man MSOTs be 0321's?  Most.  Fr/ what I heard for sure there's the:
O-3 Cpt/Tm Ldr;
E-7 GySgt/Plt Sgt;
Commo;
Corpsman;

Fr/here its info I heard but can't verify:
1x 0211 Counter-Intel Specialist;
1x EOD Tech;
2x 4man Recon Teams
 
I also heard that 2 Marines of the 2Recon teams are Radio Recon, but like I said I can't verify it.
 
BUT Remember that MSOCs deploy teams on a fluid "Task Organized" nature, so fr/ the Marines that I've talked to the whole 14man MSOT thing is to satisfy Higher HQ at USSOCOM for solid #'s.  
 
DET-1 deployed 16man teams lead by Senior SNCO (E-8/9's) not Officers, that reeked havoc in Iraq.  And these teams had Recon, Snipers, JTACs, Imagery & Terrain Intel Specialist, just guys fr/ thru-out the DET so I wouldn't get hung up on structure.
 
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