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Subject: words from Mr. Mac
bob the brit    9/19/2007 8:50:56 PM
i was exploring that video tube thing and found this. i tried to add it as a link but i'm computer challenged and got confused so just go to this website: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nlEoQWLVEU&mode=related&search= watch it the whole way through, see what he says about the wing (well the reg in general) i can see this starting quite the debate. i wish mac could come on here and talk, you'd all hate him, i loved him, i didn't realise he was on telly though, what else has he done on TV? mough, seen as you survived the stoning maybe you can fill me in a bit on this
 
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bob the brit       10/17/2007 9:58:17 AM



i was exploring that video tube thing and found this. i tried to add it as a link but i'm computer challenged and got confused so just go to this website: http:>link target=_blank>link

watch it the whole way through, see what he says about the wing (well the reg in general) i can see this starting quite the debate. i wish mac could come on here and talk, you'd all hate him, i loved him,
i didn't realise he was on telly though, what else has he done on TV?
mough, seen as you survived the stoning maybe you can fill me in a bit on this



What do you do for a living (im really curios now! after seeing that link).

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you apologised, i'm semi-retired you could say, while i do work with a small group of other people playing with guns, so to speak, i am not a full time employee there. just a good friend of the boss that gets invited to 'play' for pay every so often. also gets me free 'holidays' every now and then, he seems to send me on business trips that last two weeks to a month (10% being business, the other 90 free time). before all that i was a sneaky beaky.
 
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GOP       10/17/2007 10:39:47 AM






i was exploring that video tube thing and found this. i tried to add it as a link but i'm computer challenged and got confused so just go to this website: http: link target=_blank>link

watch it the whole way through, see what he says about the wing (well the reg in general) i can see this starting quite the debate. i wish mac could come on here and talk, you'd all hate him, i loved him,
i didn't realise he was on telly though, what else has he done on TV?
mough, seen as you survived the stoning maybe you can fill me in a bit on this




What do you do for a living (im really curios now! after seeing that link).


i'll give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you apologised, i'm semi-retired you could say, while i do work with a small group of other people playing with guns, so to speak, i am not a full time employee there. just a good friend of the boss that gets invited to 'play' for pay every so often. also gets me free 'holidays' every now and then, he seems to send me on business trips that last two weeks to a month (10% being business, the other 90 free time). before all that i was a sneaky beaky.


If you don't mind me asking, is it a PMC?
 
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lacon22       10/17/2007 10:40:45 AM






i was exploring that video tube thing and found this. i tried to add it as a link but i'm computer challenged and got confused so just go to this website: http: link target=_blank>link

watch it the whole way through, see what he says about the wing (well the reg in general) i can see this starting quite the debate. i wish mac could come on here and talk, you'd all hate him, i loved him,
i didn't realise he was on telly though, what else has he done on TV?
mough, seen as you survived the stoning maybe you can fill me in a bit on this




What do you do for a living (im really curios now! after seeing that link).


i'll give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you apologised, i'm semi-retired you could say, while i do work with a small group of other people playing with guns, so to speak, i am not a full time employee there. just a good friend of the boss that gets invited to 'play' for pay every so often. also gets me free 'holidays' every now and then, he seems to send me on business trips that last two weeks to a month (10% being business, the other 90 free time). before all that i was a sneaky beaky.


'sneaky beaky'-what did you do before you retired.
 
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bob the brit       10/17/2007 10:55:42 AM










i was exploring that video tube thing and found this. i tried to add it as a link but i'm computer challenged and got confused so just go to this website: http:>link target=_blank>link

watch it the whole way through, see what he says about the wing (well the reg in general) i can see this starting quite the debate. i wish mac could come on here and talk, you'd all hate him, i loved him,
i didn't realise he was on telly though, what else has he done on TV?
mough, seen as you survived the stoning maybe you can fill me in a bit on this





What do you do for a living (im really curios now! after seeing that link).



i'll give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you apologised, i'm semi-retired you could say, while i do work with a small group of other people playing with guns, so to speak, i am not a full time employee there. just a good friend of the boss that gets invited to 'play' for pay every so often. also gets me free 'holidays' every now and then, he seems to send me on business trips that last two weeks to a month (10% being business, the other 90 free time). before all that i was a sneaky beaky.



If you don't mind me asking, is it a PMC?


ha, me a merc? no, i'm far too old for that GOP. simply put they test weapons (small arms), based in Canada (hence i say i'm in canada a lot) although how they are allowed to do what they do i don't know (what with automatics being banned for civillian use) as they aren't a government operation, simply just a comany set up by a couple of guys to play with guns and basically get paid for doing it. anyway, i never ask questions as to how they manage to curtail the restrictions in canada and it's not as if the gov' doesn't know they exist, they know alright. we (i helped a lot with this bit) transformed a nice chunk of land (about 200 acres of so) in the middle of nowwhere in ontario into a testing ground (or as i like to call it, the rifle's assault course). they do anything from specs and data for the most minute details (ie. stripping the gun completely down to each individual part, then measuring every part, rust testing, etc. some companies apparently find this useful [and it's not always easy to ask the manufacturer all these little details, especially when they no longer exist]) they also do a lot of mehanics testing and endurance testing (ie, burying a gun in sand and seeing how well if at all it fires etc. they do that for sand/mud/water/snow/dirt all sorts of things (including KY jelly one day for some reason ... that was the happiest day of that glock`s life). so yeah, not a merc no, ut definitely well paid (the boss even paid for my trip to nepal this past summer... no business involved)
 
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bob the brit       10/17/2007 10:58:58 AM










i was exploring that video tube thing and found this. i tried to add it as a link but i'm computer challenged and got confused so just go to this website: http:>link target=_blank>link

watch it the whole way through, see what he says about the wing (well the reg in general) i can see this starting quite the debate. i wish mac could come on here and talk, you'd all hate him, i loved him,
i didn't realise he was on telly though, what else has he done on TV?
mough, seen as you survived the stoning maybe you can fill me in a bit on this





What do you do for a living (im really curios now! after seeing that link).



i'll give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you apologised, i'm semi-retired you could say, while i do work with a small group of other people playing with guns, so to speak, i am not a full time employee there. just a good friend of the boss that gets invited to 'play' for pay every so often. also gets me free 'holidays' every now and then, he seems to send me on business trips that last two weeks to a month (10% being business, the other 90 free time). before all that i was a sneaky beaky.



'sneaky beaky'-what did you do before you retired.


i went around being very sneaky... it`s already been said what i used to do, have a look around the threads and maybe you`ll see
 
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dirtykraut       10/17/2007 3:04:10 PM
Bob, you make a good argument, as usual. The SAS did give many other units a foundation in training, tactics etc. But was not the greek phalanx surpassed by it's Roman copy, the refined legion? 
 
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bob the brit       10/17/2007 3:15:44 PM

Bob, you make a good argument, as usual. The SAS did give many other units a foundation in training, tactics etc. But was not the greek phalanx surpassed by it's Roman copy, the refined legion? 


alas tis true, tis true...
i don't personally have the same views as macalese, however, i do know how instrumental the regiment was in aiding the founding of many other SF units (well mainly in the CT side of things). no they didn't train everyone, but i can assure you (please no one take this as an "SAS is better than you" post!!!!) they were likely the most helpful in other units cases, often being the only ones called upon to give advice. that said, lets keep it at that and go no further
it's also worth mentioning that this was in the beginning of things (sort of post munich massacre and just into the late eighties). while i'm sure staff within the regiment are alled upon for their two pence, it likely doesn't occur as often as it used to. the reason behind this is that foreign (well foreign to me) units now have their own foundation of principles and practices and are equally capable of helping others be it in their own militaries or others.
 
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dirtykraut       10/17/2007 3:15:45 PM
When CAG first started up, Beckwith was influenced by his tour with the SAS in 1960, but also very influenced by his impeccable service in Vietnam. The SAS had sent an advisor/trainer at the formation of CAG, but so did the GIGN, GSG-9, the CIA and various other government agencies, US Navy SEALS, US Army SF, and Vietnam veterans of similar small units, many MACV-SOG vets as well. Not to slate the SAS or their contribution to the forming of CAG, but I would consider the experience and training of many of the other groups who had years of experience fighting the Vietnam war more valuable.
 
As for John Macaleese, he is a good guy who served  in the British armed forces for 20 years. Can you blame him for having pride in his regiment?
 
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Ehran       10/19/2007 12:50:32 PM
one thing that should be considered when you thinking on what mr mac has to say is that he was there at the start of the development of modern CT and got to watch things come together up close and personal which gives him a perspective shared by a rather minescule number of people.
 
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bob the brit       10/19/2007 1:13:42 PM

When CAG first started up, Beckwith was influenced by his tour with the SAS in 1960, but also very influenced by his impeccable service in Vietnam. The SAS had sent an advisor/trainer at the formation of CAG, but so did the GIGN, GSG-9, the CIA and various other government agencies, US Navy SEALS, US Army SF, and Vietnam veterans of similar small units, many MACV-SOG vets as well. Not to slate the SAS or their contribution to the forming of CAG, but I would consider the experience and training of many of the other groups who had years of experience fighting the Vietnam war more valuable.

 

As for John Macaleese, he is a good guy who served  in the British armed forces for 20 years. Can you blame him for having pride in his regiment?



i too share mac's pride, i'm just a bit more realistic i like to think. i do agree with you dirtykraut about the value US units had in the forming of Delta, as it was they who had already experienced the politics of the US military, whereas the reg' was of a different ilk if you will, different emphasis on different aspects (like i before mentioned the US's heavy emphisis on the utilisation of firepower, where as UK units were more into hard arrests if possible and less overt means, which don't get wrong, isn't necessarily better than the US way of things... US units have more than proven their competence of achiving things there way... this i think leads me to my utter respect and admiration of the shakies (Silly boat sailors) as it their ethos to do thnigs as 'quite' as possible, hence they rearranged the 'official' motto from by strength and by guile to simply 'not by strength, by guile'. having looked at a couple of their 'records' in the past, it is obvious they have perfected their role, and manage to limit both casualties on their behalf and the often unnecessary casualties on the other side, while still making the oppo a complete success)
i also agree that charlie's time in the land of cong, became very instrumental in his view of a need for a unit such as that he went on to create.
 
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