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Subject: Send Special Operations troops into Pakistan to take out terrorist leaders? WTF?
GOP    7/24/2007 4:23:26 AM
Whatsup guys, hope all is well. Anyway, I was watching Bill O'reilly tonight, and although I didn't catch all of the story, one of Bill Clinton's former advisors was recommending that the US should send Special Operations units into Pakistani tribal regions to "secretly take out terrorist leaders". What the heck? I know CAG has been in Pakistan, but wasn't their mission more along the lines of SR and not DA? I just can't believe how uneducated some people are regarding the use of special operations. So this guy is a former high ranking Clinton official, and he thinks we should "secretly" go into Pakistani tribal regions and start capping terrorist leaders, as if it is that easy? Does he not realize that the (I'm assuming CAG) operators would be HEAVILY outnumbered and outgunned? Once they fire a single round they would be fired upon with AK's, Mortars, T-55's, RPG's, among other things. Large Pakistani Army units have gone into the area and in one op lost 42 soldiers (I believe). My Lord, it would probably take the entire 75th Rangers along with a few companies of 82nd AB and CAG to successfully go into an area that size and start killing BG's. Am I wrong here, or are most people uneducated on the use of Special Operations?
 
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BLUIE006       7/24/2007 10:22:54 AM
 
 I tend  to agree, most  people  are uneducated in  the  tactics and  methods used  by  Special  Forces! and Intelligence  for  that  matter.
 
However I disagree, I think there  are  elements  of special  forces units  from  US,UK  and Australia  that  could go in and operate very  effectively in  small  numbers, and I'm  sure they have done  so.
SASR(Aust), USMC Force Recon(Snipers), SBS (UK) ...for  example...they  may not be able to cover the  entire  area...but if  they got  quality intelligence..... chances  are  they  would  try recruit  and  train a  group  of  locals  to boost numbers.
 
 
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Horsesoldier       7/24/2007 2:51:30 PM
This is all assuming that this sort of thing has not already been done.  Not that I'm saying it has (above my pay grade and if it wasn't I wouldn't be commenting on it, etc.), just that I'd venture to guess that a "former Clinton advisor" probably is no longer in the loop on what kind of operations are or are not being run by national level assets, etc.
 
 
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DarthAmerica    GOP Reply   7/24/2007 3:01:12 PM
When they say "capping terrorist leaders", this is the right thing to do. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you have get into a direct firefight, snipping, stabbing or whatever. These types of units could pass data along that would enable other forces to do the actual shooting like PAK units or U.S./PAK airpower. 20,000ft up the guys on the grounds can't tell who dropped the bomb on a terrorist camp. Modern communications makes a SOF operator much more deadly than if he was operating with a team and organic weapons. I hate to use a Hollywood example but go watch Clear and Present Danger or Patriot Games. They give very accurate dramatizations of some of what I'm talking about.
 
-DA
 
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RaptorZ       7/24/2007 3:01:27 PM

I seem to recall the days leading up to Afghanistan we did send in SF's to attack a compound or collective bunch of houses, I believe there was video and everything, it was kinda a hoorah thing. But I also recall the comments of the SF soldiers were something like, This was a joke and that They are not meant for this kind of operation....From what I recall they came under extremely heavy fire, went in quite light to what they were up against....and that they were all p*ssed that they were put in that position....but like I said it was a Rah rah situation...I think lessons had been learned from that....

 
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GOP       7/24/2007 3:31:31 PM

This is all assuming that this sort of thing has not already been done.  Not that I'm saying it has (above my pay grade and if it wasn't I wouldn't be commenting on it, etc.), just that I'd venture to guess that a "former Clinton advisor" probably is no longer in the loop on what kind of operations are or are not being run by national level assets, etc.

 



I agree, he probably isn't in the know on those kinds of things (I'm not sure if he would be even if he was in a current administration honestly), but I just hate that attitude of "lets send the 'special forces' to do every tough job" attitude. Ideas like that from higher ups is what get these guys killed .
 
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GOP       7/24/2007 3:31:34 PM

This is all assuming that this sort of thing has not already been done.  Not that I'm saying it has (above my pay grade and if it wasn't I wouldn't be commenting on it, etc.), just that I'd venture to guess that a "former Clinton advisor" probably is no longer in the loop on what kind of operations are or are not being run by national level assets, etc.

 



I agree, he probably isn't in the know on those kinds of things (I'm not sure if he would be even if he was in a current administration honestly), but I just hate that attitude of "lets send the 'special forces' to do every tough job" attitude. Ideas like that from higher ups is what get these guys killed.
 
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GOP       7/24/2007 3:37:23 PM

When they say "capping terrorist leaders", this is the right thing to do. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you have get into a direct firefight, snipping, stabbing or whatever. These types of units could pass data along that would enable other forces to do the actual shooting like PAK units or U.S./PAK airpower. 20,000ft up the guys on the grounds can't tell who dropped the bomb on a terrorist camp. Modern communications makes a SOF operator much more deadly than if he was operating with a team and organic weapons. I hate to use a Hollywood example but go watch Clear and Present Danger or Patriot Games. They give very accurate dramatizations of some of what I'm talking about.

 

-DA


It is most definitely the right thing to do, however he was implying that you send the 'special forces' to go kill the enemy directly. I agree, units like CAG, (ugh, here we go) DEVGRU, CIA SAD, even Force Recon to do those jobs in small numbers in an intel gathering/SR role to reign down JDAM's would be a great idea, however having those units get into a direct firefight outnumbered and outgunned would be suicidal.
Anyway, the first sign that someone knows nothing of Special operations is when they use the term "Special forces" in a generic, indirect way. In their world, "Special forces" are CAG, DEVGRU, SF, FR, NSW, CCT, PJ's, ST's, SAD, and whomever else falls under SOCOM/JSOC.
 
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DarthAmerica       7/24/2007 3:47:57 PM



Anyway, the first sign that someone knows nothing of Special operations is when they use the term "Special forces" in a generic, indirect way. In their world, "Special forces" are CAG, DEVGRU, SF, FR, NSW, CCT, PJ's, ST's, SAD, and whomever else falls under SOCOM/JSOC.

Just try to remember that Generals, Admirals and Politicians use very vague terms like "special forces" to preserve OPSEC or simply because they do not need to know the details of nomenclature.
-DA

 
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GOP       7/27/2007 11:00:40 PM






Anyway, the first sign that someone knows nothing of Special operations is when they use the term "Special forces" in a generic, indirect way. In their world, "Special forces" are CAG, DEVGRU, SF, FR, NSW, CCT, PJ's, ST's, SAD, and whomever else falls under SOCOM/JSOC.



Just try to remember that Generals, Admirals and Politicians use very vague terms like "special forces" to preserve OPSEC or simply because they do not need to know the details of nomenclature.

-DA



Understood. However, it's just a major pet peeve when everyone in the media says "Special forces" when the correct term is "special operations", "special operations forces", "special operations units", etc. As you know much more than me, "Special Forces" is a specific Army unit.
If I had to make a guess, I'd guess a certain unit within JSOC has probably been in the area for awhile, and they have probably been in Iran for a while aswell. No need to have shooters in the area because if any shots are fired, it's over for the good guys most likely. I have the idea that some intel guys are in country
 
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