There was opposition before and during WWI in the US although it was the right and noble thing to do

 

There was opposition before and during WWII (Although not as much) in fact in some circles in the US it was referred to as Roosevelts war.

 

There was Opposition to the Korean War, even though the North Koreans attacked unproviked slaugtered innocent civilians.

 

The was opposition to GW I even the almost the entire world was with us.

 

The problem is simple, most of us faiol to see the real threat, or think that it simply something that we can ignore. Most Americans despite being told over and over that war is much bigger than Afganistan & Iraq and may go on for generations, just do not believe it.

 

This war is not America's war, most people in this country are sacrificing nothing, but the servicemen and women serving and thier families are sacrificing all so that they can feel that way. Actually Colt, it has always been that way.

 

In 1975, 61 servicemen, mostly Marines but from all branches of service died rescuing some merchant seaman off the coast of Cambodia, three were accidently left behind and days later executed. One of those, a very dear friend of mine, when I talk to people about the Mayaguez, few know what I am talking about.

 

Soldiers, sailors, Airmen and Marines throughout the 20th Century were off fighting in little known conflicts all the time, many people hardly know about it.

 

Let's not even mention Korean War or Vietnam Vets, they faced some of the most repulsive insults after returning home that one can imagine.

 

When your coach, or your parent suggest that there is a war out there and maybe you should think twice, maybe you should, truth is there is no honor in dying, only death. And they see you as someone that they love.  But in knowing that, and being willing to face that for a cause, is all the Honor that anyone can ask of you, ever.

 

That is why those who volunteer are so special a breed, so precious a resource - because of all that are willing to go, there are 10 that are not. and for those ten, that is what we fight for, their right to feel that way.

 

Something you'll be told as a Marine some day, "It is not your duty to die for your country, it is your duty to train hard and live so our enemies can die for theirs."

 

Either way, those that advise you against, will be no less proud of you when you do.

There is an old Roman(?) saying, concerning Town Militia/Watch army units which goes something like, "Our Auxiliaries must be checked, less they become too brutish for our civilians."

 

The message is, it is well and good to have strong soldiers, but you don't want to mix them with society.  Society is something to be defended, you don't want a militant society.

I think George Orwell said it best: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "

swhitebull

 

 

 

Be careful not to buy too deeply into idealized alternatives versus reality.  None of those examples necessarily live up to the pictures some have painted of them..

 

But, that said, America has a warrior subculture, you just don't see much of it in suburbia.  You see it in places like working class neighborhoods in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and on-post housing in Camp Lejeune, or in cop bars and other places veteran law enforcement types congregate.  These tend to be closed, insular communities, unknown to most shopping-mall-culture Americans, where you have to earn your way into the tribe through your actions.  

You see Colt, the community that Horse Soldier speaks of, Yimmy belongs to are truly s special place. Even many who attempt to join don't quite get that. The real honor in the military is built by the bonds that you form and brothers and sisters you serve with.

 

All the neat little post here about who is better, who is tougher, what's the best weapons system is all quite meaningless. What is important is the way you carry yourself, your integrity, your effort towrds a cause. I have found many times, it's the quiet man that makes the best soldier or marine, you know the type, braggs little, works hard and in the end is always there for his neighbor.

 

There will always be those who oppose and/or do not understand the reasons for war, the true military man recognizes that and fights for them anyway.

Like Horsesoldier said, these people, the Spartans, the Samurai, and indian tribes are romanticised and mythologized by us. These are for the most part vindictive and nasty people whom we should not look up to. And as for their warrior culture, most of that is romanticised as well. For example, I wouldn't call the Spartan Kreitia practise an honorable thing for a "warrior culture". They feared the helots, so they would get spartan soldiers to kill unarmed slaves all over the countryside. There is no honor in that. That's murder. The 300 (though I think they had 5000 allies, and a few helots for every spartan) fought and died because they were told to do so. They were raised as such, and never had a chance at anything else. They did not get to choose their lives like they do now in this country. It's similar to these suicide bombers. They blow themselves up to die for the cause. But it's not really for the cause, it's for glory and their 72 virgins in paradise. I'd also bet that not many spartans thought dying for their country was glorious the moment they were impaled by swords.

A man should only die for his country when it is completely out of his control (being hit by an ied), or to save one of your brothers in arms (Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon come to mind), or if it is for the greater good that he dies (and that is extremely rare). Anyone who goes and looks for death is not a good soldier. In fact, it is the sign of a weak man. Some of these men (spartans, samurai, indians) may not have been afraid to die, but they were afraid to live. And to use a cliche, once that first bullet goes past your head, or once that first IED blows up your friends, and you see people with their arms blown off crying for their mothers, you come to realise that there is no glory dying for your country. But that's what I love about the US. We would rather the other prick die.

I remember an old episode of Star Trek:  Voyager, in which one of the Federation characters, Commander Chakotay, was in a shuttle with a young man from a warrior race.  When Chakotay is hesitant to jump into a fight that would have been almost certainly suicidal, the young man asks him if he wants to die in his bed like an old man.  Chakotay's response was, "That's the plan."

 

An important thing to remember about the warrior cultures that have existed in our history is that eventually they all died off.  Most died off because they lacked to ability to adapt to changes in society.  I would certainly agree with the other sentiments expressed already regarding the existing warrior subculture.  I would like to believe that I am part of that subculture, as are you, but I don't necessarily expect my children to be part of it.  I will teach them to stand up for themselves and their country, but I will be just as proud of my children if they choose to be teachers or accountants as I would be if they joined the service or entered law enforcement.  In fact, as a father I would almost rather they didn't became warriors because I can't stand the thought of losing them. 

 

Warriors are an important part of our culture, and I wish that this society was a little tougher, but as they saying goes, "the world needs ditch diggers too."