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Subject: from the horse's mouth
bob the brit    1/3/2007 12:37:49 AM
alright this should these numerous pecker competitions. Fact: every spec operator, upon entry, is informed that they are now a member of the finest fighting unit in the world (as i noted in a previous thread, it wouldn't be too good for troop morale if you were told otherwise) Fact: you are NOT told that you are the best at everything militarily, just what your skill is, either specialised or standard. Fact (well sensible opinion lets say): there is no such thing as one unit teaching every other spec unit in the world to do something, it's more a reciprocal SWAP!!! of information (eg. SBS showcases their proven way of successfully exfil'ing a sub-launched underwater delivery vessel and reconning & securing a beach to the SEALs and the SEALs showcase their method. what then often happens is a new method is created taking the finer points of each units' method. (NOTE: this is just an example, don't argue over it, that would be silly). Fact: when in the company of another spec unit, operators don't usually boast about being better than the other, if they do, they're f**king around and having a laugh (suprisingly on a much more mature level than many of the pecker contest threads on this site) allied special forces respect one another, if they didn't they likely would have been weeded out during the first week or so of selection/training. special forces don't need gung ho james bond types, you wouldn't believe how many turn up at the breacons in wales (which takes me to my next point)... you cannot say one selection process is harder than another by using initial numbers compared to final acceptance... why? because there is never any telling how many silly little maggots want to join a spec unit because they saw the embassy seige on BBC and think they're the next james bond. secondly, saying things like "SAS selection is tougher than BUD/S" is childish no matter how hard your mate Dave said the Pen Y Fan was. BUD/S and SAS selc' are too different in so many ways. I likely would have failed BUD/S all the underwater training would have done me right in (i have a minute fear of water) however, swimming lengths in BT, then swimming rivers in wales, and a small amount of underwater testing was my cup of tea, i handled it fine. so don't bicker about which selections are tougher, 'cause unless you try them all, you don't have a f**king clue. Fact (don't take this as a spark for arguement): for just about all of the major counter terrorist ops atleast one SAS operator has been present, but here's the real truth, they haven't told the spec unit involved how to run things, they've advised or absorbed (they see how the operation runs, take the info back to HQ, look at the pros and cons, discect the details and outcome... why? to learn from it), the Reg' will be one of the first spec units you'll find saying there are always things they can improve on and they always look for better ways of doing things.. i'm quite positive that all spec units have this attitude. p.s. too all of you in specific who say that the SAS is the best and better than any other unit in the world, you know who you are, STOP IT, A.) it's not appreciated, B.) if you're british, then it is very un-british of you, and C.) you don't have a bloody clue and you don't know what the SAS is all about p.s.s. to all those who read my dribble to the end, thank you, i hope (if you are not already mature enough to find these pecker comp's silly) you have absorbed a bit of what i have said.
 
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GOP       1/9/2007 12:35:58 PM










don't forget kid the reg' isn't just about CT, in fact CT in my days played as much a role as LRRP, DIP, and deep penetration assaults, not to mention IFT (indigienous force training). what with today's war on terror (led by the puppet and the nob end), most SF operations could be considered CT because that's the style of warfare most present today (or at least in a westerners view) anyway, as i said, lesser know and/or smaller groups within the army can be used as a base before entering SF. for example the red berries (para's) would bet the newcastle brown brewery that they were the best of the best, they're told so (a bit too much too, there's always rivalry when a para's involved).






Yeah, the feeder unit of choice for CAG appears to be the Rangers. If I wanted to be CAG, I'd go Ranger...to be honest, I'd like to get to the Teams, then go ST6 if I prove I am good enough. Alot of people would say that is lofty, unrealistic, etc...but those are my goals (and I've wanted to be a SEAL since I was 6)



Actually it's pretty split between SF and the Regimen with a sprinling of otherst, you have to be 26+ to apply so alot of guys have a few years in SF then go up to CAG, although anyone NG, Army reserve or regs can apply, most unlikely guy to pass, a 31 year old reservist cook....but it happened, so never say never


Yeah, I've heard that the 82nd AB is a very good feeder unit because it is on the same base as CAG and you could possibly get to train (as in, workout with individual CAG guys)/prepare with CAG operators. If the cook is a tough sob, smart, and in great shape, it could happen.

 
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bob the brit       1/9/2007 4:23:58 PM




true but i'll assume you've never heard of ASIES, Marinejaegerlag, or BRIPAC




You got a point. My guesses are:

ASIES - SBS equivalant to DEVGRU

Marinejagerlag - sounds German, so probably German Kampfschwimmers ST6 equivalant

BRIPAC - hmmm, Canadian? Not sure on this?


asies, mexican naval/marine unit tasked with strategic maritime facilities protection (not dissimilar to UK RM commachio group)
 
Marinejaegerlag, naval hunter force; royal norwegian naval special forces
 
BRIPAC, brigada ligera de infanteria - paracaidist spanish airborne unit, similar to UK paras

 
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bob the brit       1/9/2007 4:29:08 PM

Bob, you going to the reunion in mattins in June?


can't make it mate... off to nepal with the missus, always wanted to see where them gurkins came from, leave in may, back by early july... if i live long enough for the next one though i'll pop in
 
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bob the brit       1/9/2007 4:49:17 PM
anyway mough, you still haven't told me when you served, you said you were younger so i'm guessing you either separated a few years or so ago, or haven't quite yet become a blunt edge like myself... in which case i can understand
 
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GOP       1/9/2007 4:51:11 PM








true but i'll assume you've never heard of ASIES, Marinejaegerlag, or BRIPAC







You got a point. My guesses are:



ASIES - SBS equivalant to DEVGRU



Marinejagerlag - sounds German, so probably German Kampfschwimmers ST6 equivalant



BRIPAC - hmmm, Canadian? Not sure on this?




asies, mexican naval/marine unit tasked with strategic maritime facilities protection (not dissimilar to UK RM commachio group)

 

Marinejaegerlag, naval hunter force; royal norwegian naval special forces

 

BRIPAC, brigada ligera de infanteria - paracaidist spanish airborne unit, similar to UK paras



Wow, completely wrong lol. Any idea what the official (ala DEVGRU/CAG) name of the SBS' SMU is?

 
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bob the brit       1/9/2007 5:19:38 PM

don't know what it's like now GOP but in my day the SBS had three squadrons; C, S, and M... C squaddies were the swimmer canoeist, S squaddies handled the larger water craft (ie. rigids, mini subs, and SDV's), M sqdrn was the maritime counter terrorism unit and with it was "black troop" (not disimilar to the idea of the SAS's pagoda unit's red and blue troop) anyway black troop specialized in helicopter borne op's (they launched rigid inflatables and went to war in other words). black troop members were the ones on 24 hour notice, while the rest of M sqdrn would either complement then in larger op's or compliment the RM commachio group, or conduct drug busts intercepting "wet" drug deliveries from mainland europe to britain's east coast.

 
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GOP       1/9/2007 6:25:12 PM

don't know what it's like now GOP but in my day the SBS had three squadrons; C, S, and M... C squaddies were the swimmer canoeist, S squaddies handled the larger water craft (ie. rigids, mini subs, and SDV's), M sqdrn was the maritime counter terrorism unit and with it was "black troop" (not disimilar to the idea of the SAS's pagoda unit's red and blue troop) anyway black troop specialized in helicopter borne op's (they launched rigid inflatables and went to war in other words). black troop members were the ones on 24 hour notice, while the rest of M sqdrn would either complement then in larger op's or compliment the RM commachio group, or conduct drug busts intercepting "wet" drug deliveries from mainland europe to britain's east coast.




Interesting how the SBS was divided, it's seems completely different than the Teams. I have heard that if you complete BUD/S and SQT, you can volunteer for the SDV Teams (I believe ST2 is a SDV Team, interesting because they are located in Panama City Beach, Florida...we have a house in Destin, Fl which is 30 minutes away). Do you have any knowledge about what the SDV teams do (ie: their mission set, etc). If I am getting on your nerves asking all of these questions, then please just tell me to shut up, I am just fascinated with your stories/info.

 
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bob the brit       1/9/2007 7:52:23 PM




don't know what it's like now GOP but in my day the SBS had three squadrons; C, S, and M... C squaddies were the swimmer canoeist, S squaddies handled the larger water craft (ie. rigids, mini subs, and SDV's), M sqdrn was the maritime counter terrorism unit and with it was "black troop" (not disimilar to the idea of the SAS's pagoda unit's red and blue troop) anyway black troop specialized in helicopter borne op's (they launched rigid inflatables and went to war in other words). black troop members were the ones on 24 hour notice, while the rest of M sqdrn would either complement then in larger op's or compliment the RM commachio group, or conduct drug busts intercepting "wet" drug deliveries from mainland europe to britain's east coast.








Interesting how the SBS was divided, it's seems completely different than the Teams. I have heard that if you complete BUD/S and SQT, you can volunteer for the SDV Teams (I believe ST2 is a SDV Team, interesting because they are located in Panama City Beach, Florida...we have a house in Destin, Fl which is 30 minutes away). Do you have any knowledge about what the SDV teams do (ie: their mission set, etc). If I am getting on your nerves asking all of these questions, then please just tell me to shut up, I am just fascinated with your stories/info.



it doesn't bother me kid... i'm glad i can pass on some of knowledge... from what i recall it's simple... if a mission calls for silent infiltration via a small water source (ie. river) then it is likely that C squaddy swimmer/canoeists are the ticket (especially if small numbered force is required) they use the klepper collapsible primarily (beautiful boat, excellant handling), if the target is 5 miles from shore and requires the upmost stealth then in they go
S sqdrn, as i said uses larger craft such as rigids, SDVs, or mini subs... therefore if a mission called for a DA on a coastal target, they would likely be the choice, infil via SDV launched from a UK sub, or rigid raiders... this also means greater numbers can be used, along with greater amount of equipment (ie. demolitions equip', squad support weapons etc. etc.)
 
M sqdrn and the black troop are basically your UK equiv' of DEVGRU, taking on maritime CT ops and drug busts.
 
SDV ops are usually used by the SBS as a means of infilling (obviously somewhere far from the UK) via SDV carrier sub' to coastal areas stealthily, not upstream. they could also be used to take teams to a way point from which the operators then STT (swim to target) such as docklands or to dem rig a sea going vessel. after having said all that, it's basically up to the mission planners as to how the op is carried out and which sqdrn is best suited. all SBS operators are obviously very proficient swimmers, however some are best suited to motorized water craft operation, or canoeing. get what i mean?
 
during the Falklands, SBS teams were early ashore in south georgia. they went on to secure the amphibious landing sites at san carlos bay and also silenced the arggy outpost at fanning head over looking the landing site
 
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GOP       1/9/2007 8:06:48 PM








don't know what it's like now GOP but in my day the SBS had three squadrons; C, S, and M... C squaddies were the swimmer canoeist, S squaddies handled the larger water craft (ie. rigids, mini subs, and SDV's), M sqdrn was the maritime counter terrorism unit and with it was "black troop" (not disimilar to the idea of the SAS's pagoda unit's red and blue troop) anyway black troop specialized in helicopter borne op's (they launched rigid inflatables and went to war in other words). black troop members were the ones on 24 hour notice, while the rest of M sqdrn would either complement then in larger op's or compliment the RM commachio group, or conduct drug busts intercepting "wet" drug deliveries from mainland europe to britain's east coast.













Interesting how the SBS was divided, it's seems completely different than the Teams. I have heard that if you complete BUD/S and SQT, you can volunteer for the SDV Teams (I believe ST2 is a SDV Team, interesting because they are located in Panama City Beach, Florida...we have a house in Destin, Fl which is 30 minutes away). Do you have any knowledge about what the SDV teams do (ie: their mission set, etc). If I am getting on your nerves asking all of these questions, then please just tell me to shut up, I am just fascinated with your stories/info.





it doesn't bother me kid... i'm glad i can pass on some of knowledge... from what i recall it's simple... if a mission calls for silent infiltration via a small water source (ie. river) then it is likely that C squaddy swimmer/canoeists are the ticket (especially if small numbered force is required) they use the klepper collapsible primarily (beautiful boat, excellant handling), if the target is 5 miles from shore and requires the upmost stealth then in they go

S sqdrn, as i said uses larger craft such as rigids, SDVs, or mini subs... therefore if a mission called for a DA on a coastal target, they would likely be the choice, infil via SDV launched from a UK sub, or rigid raiders... this also means greater numbers can be used, along with greater amount of equipment (ie. demolitions equip', squad support weapons etc. etc.)

 

M sqdrn and the black troop are basically your UK equiv' of DEVGRU, taking on maritime CT ops and drug busts.

 

SDV ops are usually used by the SBS as a means of infilling (obviously somewhere far from the UK) via SDV carrier sub' to coastal areas stealthily, not upstream. they could also be used to take teams to a way point from which the operators then STT (swim to target) such as docklands or to dem rig a sea going vessel. after having said all that, it's basically up to the mission planners as to how the op is carried out and which sqdrn is best suited. all SBS operators are obviously very proficient swimmers, however some are best suited to motorized water craft operation, or canoeing. get what i mean?

 

during the Falklands, SBS teams were early ashore in south georgia. they went on to secure the amphibious landing sites at san carlos bay and also silenced the arggy outpost at fanning head over looking the landing site


Sounds very interesting, I didn't know that the SBS had a specific squadron for each means of transport. It was also interesting how the SDV team gets the DA ops, the Teams give most of their DA ops to the regular Teams. Does the SBS do any onshore ops away from the sea? As you know, the SEAL teams have been everywhere from Bosnia, to Afghanistan, to Iraq performing ops...far, far from the sea. Also, why does the SAS have combat swimmers in addition to the SBS' combatswimmers?
 
I heard that the SBS and SAS both got into a small gun battle on the Falklands, did you know any of the guys who were injured/died?
 
 
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bob the brit       1/9/2007 8:33:03 PM













don't know what it's like now GOP but in my day the SBS had three squadrons; C, S, and M... C squaddies were the swimmer canoeist, S squaddies handled the larger water craft (ie. rigids, mini subs, and SDV's), M sqdrn was the maritime counter terrorism unit and with it was "black troop" (not disimilar to the idea of the SAS's pagoda unit's red and blue troop) anyway black troop specialized in helicopter borne op's (they launched rigid inflatables and went to war in other words). black troop members were the ones on 24 hour notice, while the rest of M sqdrn would either complement then in larger op's or compliment the RM commachio group, or conduct drug busts intercepting "wet" drug deliveries from mainland europe to britain's east coast.


















Interesting how the SBS was divided, it's seems completely different than the Teams. I have heard that if you complete BUD/S and SQT, you can volunteer for the SDV Teams (I believe ST2 is a SDV Team, interesting because they are located in Panama City Beach, Florida...we have a house in Destin, Fl which is 30 minutes away). Do you have any knowledge about what the SDV teams do (ie: their mission set, etc). If I am getting on your nerves asking all of these questions, then please just tell me to shut up, I am just fascinated with your stories/info.








it doesn't bother me kid... i'm glad i can pass on some of knowledge... from what i recall it's simple... if a mission calls for silent infiltration via a small water source (ie. river) then it is likely that C squaddy swimmer/canoeists are the ticket (especially if small numbered force is required) they use the klepper collapsible primarily (beautiful boat, excellant handling), if the target is 5 miles from shore and requires the upmost stealth then in they go



S sqdrn, as i said uses larger craft such as rigids, SDVs, or mini subs... therefore if a mission called for a DA on a coastal target, they would likely be the choice, infil via SDV launched from a UK sub, or rigid raiders... this also means greater numbers can be used, along with greater amount of equipment (ie. demolitions equip', squad support weapons etc. etc.)



 



M sqdrn and the black troop are basically your UK equiv' of DEVGRU, taking on maritime CT ops and drug busts.



 



SDV ops are usually used by the SBS as a means of infilling (obviously somewhere far from the UK) via SDV carrier sub' to coastal areas stealthily, not upstream. they could also be used to take teams to a way point from which the operators then STT (swim to target) such as docklands or to dem rig a sea going vessel. after having said all that, it's basically up to the mission planners as to how the op is carried out and which sqdrn is best suited. all SBS operators are obviously very proficient swimmers, however some are best suited to motorized water craft operation, or canoeing. get what i mean?



 



during the Falklands, SBS teams were early ashore in south georgia. they went on to secure the amphibious landing sites at san carlos bay and also silenced the arggy outpost at fanning head over looking the landing site




Sounds very interesting, I didn't know that the SBS had a specific squadron for each means of transport. It was also interesting how the SDV team gets the DA ops, the Teams give most of their DA ops to the regular Teams. Does the SBS do any onshore ops away from the sea? As you know, the SEAL teams have been everywhere from Bosnia, to Afghanistan, to Iraq performing ops...far, far from the sea. Also, why does the SAS have combat swim
 
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