What is your opinion in women getting into special ops?

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Subject: What is your opinion in women getting into special ops?
Delta_Xana 12/5/2006 3:56:17 PM

At the moment, practically every country in the world except for New Zealand and Canada(??) exempts females from direct combat and furthermore special ops what is your opinion of this? should "she" be allowed to prove herself or should combat live up to its steriotype as being all-male Rambo guys?

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olive greens 12/5/2006 6:49:16 PM

The word you are looking for, I believe, is "bars" not "exempts"; and its probably most known military special forces that bar women. (a) Exemption is given to those who ask for it, barring is a matter of policy. (b) Plenty of paramilitary and armed constabularies have women in spec-ops type roles, especially when gender is a sensitive issue.

My opinion: Why not? They already make our (men's) lives miserable from kindergarten onwards in name of injustice perpetuated on their foremothers. I have also seen enough physically very fit women who should be able to endure the rigours of military service. Now if they are asking to be posted to a god-forsaken frontier, why should we deny them the pleasure? Biologically speaking, they would be perfect for the Sirus Patrol or the Siachen Brigade - no chances of freezing their b@lls off.

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Yimmy 12/5/2006 8:18:46 PM

I do not agree with women in combat roles.

I see it as posing issues with the male majority where it comes to the women being injured, and I do not believe them to be physically capable of carrying equal weight.

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Delta_Xana 12/6/2006 3:32:23 PM

But we know it will happen one day anyway.

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longrifle 12/6/2006 7:13:37 PM

The problem I see with women in special operations or light infantry has to do with the way the U.S. makes war. You have to define what being "in combat" involves beyond being exposed to incoming fire and shooting back. We're usually deploying someplace else to fight and the operations often involve moving under a heavy load for extended periods of time. The average man starts to suffer when his total load passes 1/3 of his bodyweight; and the average man is1/2 again stronger thatn the average woman.

Women have more than proven themselves in combat of a more static nature. From frontier forts in North America to Russian snipers in WWII they've performed well. They've also did well as OSS agents in WWII. Again, that's different than what a typical U.S. operation involves for special ops and light infantry.

They've also done very well as guerrillas when they've been employed in a local area on operations that didn't involve a lot of long tactical movements under weight. I'm thinking of the female sniper platoon commander killed by a certain Marine in Vietnam but I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

Women would probably have been a liability on a patrol in Tora Bora. Not so defending Stalingrad.

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smitty237 12/12/2006 3:37:00 AM

The reasons for not allowing women in combat are both physiological and cultural. First of all, the average woman is not as strong as the average male. This is not in dispute. I doubt that we will be seeing any female Rangers anytime soon. They simply are not strong enough to handle the heavy loads Rangers are expected to carry into battle. There are hygiene factors as well. A male can go weeks without a proper bath, but if a female soldier does this she is asking for trouble. I'm not trying to be graphic here, but in the 1991 Gulf War a large number of women soldiers serving in the desert were being treated for "female issues." For obvious reasons men do not suffer the same sort of medical problems. In the context of special ops, one has to wonder what kind of health issues might be presented with female Special Forces soldiers that may have to serve for weeks or months at a time in the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of Southeast Asia.

The cultural and social issues should be obvious. While I'm sure the sexual tension between male and female soldiers would evaporate in the middle of combat, you have to remember that most of the time soldiers spend their time training, performing routine tasks, or in their barracks. Lots of opportunities for fraternization. Relationships are absolutely inevitable, and this would serve to undermine morale and unit effectiveness. Soldiers in special ops units are more disciplined than those in regular line units, but men are still men, and they will still develop feelings for pretty women.

Perhaps the most important development for the advocates of women serving in combat positions has been the war in Iraq. Women soldiers have been serving alongside infantry units during house to house operations. Women soldiers were used to search females in homes harboring suspected insurgents, but they had to have seen some combat. Even the Marines have allowed women to accompany some of its combat patrols. MP units are not considered combat arms units, so they allow females in their ranks, but in Iraq MP units have been involved in some heavy fighting. At least one has been awarded the Silver Star for her action in combat, and quite a few women have been killed or seriously wounded in combat. Perhaps soldiers that have served with women soldiers in combat will have a much more open attitude towards the subject as they move up the leadership ranks.

As a parting note I would pass along that I have heard rumors that some female operators have served in Delta Force. I know one SWAT guru that has even claimed to have met one. I have no way of confirming this, but I find it interesting. Considering the fact that women serve in quite a few civilian SWAT units, this makes some sense. From what I understand about many Delta operations they tend to be rather short in duration and involve operators moving into an area of operation, doing the job, and getting out. A female operator would have to be in good shape, but it is not outside the realm of possibility that there are some women out there that have the right stuff to do the job. Women counter terrorist operators could also be an asset because in certain situations a female operator may be able to move around or gain access to buildings that would be inaccessible to men. Studies have also shown that women tend to be better natural shooters than men because they have better hand-eye coordination and vision than men. The Russians used women snipers in WWII, and some of them turned out some impressive kill numbers.

I'm not ready for my daughter to serve in an infantry unit, but as Delta stated, women will more than likely eventually be serving in combat arms units right alongside the men.

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mough 12/12/2006 9:11:05 AM

There are no badged female operators in CAG......there are female support staff.

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GOP 12/12/2006 1:17:21 PM

Women in Special Operations? Heck no. No way. Not a chance. Why?

1) Women can't handle SOF selection courses, bottom line. Look, Women are capable of some very good fitness achievements, but could they handle a selection course that the majority of highly fit men can't even handle? Their bodies were not made for that kind of punishment.

2) Women can't handle the physical requirements of Special Operations. Take a look at what our Special Operation units are doing in Afghanistan. They typically carry around 80lbs+ of gear up the extremely high altitudes in the Hindu Kush. We are talking hiking up very rigourous mountain trails of up to 10 miles with 100lbs of gear. I'm not trying to sound rude or offend anyone, but most women b*tch about having to carry their groceries in the house.

3) As mentioned in a above post, hygiene is obviously a major factor.

This probably all sounds bad, but it's just the facts. I am not some kind of male shovenist types. In fact, as a 16 year old guy, I love women...although I'm wouldn't be all that attracted to any woman who could make it through SOF selection.

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mough 12/13/2006 5:43:04 AM

) Women can't handle the physical requirements of Special Operations. Take a look at what our Special Operation units are doing in Afghanistan. They typically carry around 80lbs+ of gear up the extremely high altitudes in the Hindu Kush. We are talking hiking up very rigourous mountain trails of up to 10 miles with 100lbs of gear. I'm not trying to sound rude or offend anyone, but most women b*tch about having to carry their groceries in the house.

most men can't handle the requirements either kid

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HIPAR Ladies or warriors? 12/13/2006 11:48:20 AM

Haven't women been flying combat missions over Iraq? There was one lady who flew her shot-up A-10 back to base -- my kind of gal.

Maybe a woman cannot perform the Rambo mission you might associate with Special Operations but I can envision women infiltrating enemy strongholds for intelligence gathering. It wouldn't surprised to find women who are already out there doing that work.

--- CHAS

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Yimmy 12/13/2006 11:57:22 AM

There was one lady who flew her shot-up A-10 back to base -- my kind of gal.

Well, heaven forbid an airforce pilot has to sleep in the field, where it may rain or worse!

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