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Subject: JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict
GOP    7/19/2006 3:27:20 PM
What are the odds that JSOC and Western SOF (most notably the SAS) units are involved in the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict? With the arrival of US and British Ships meant to evac US/British citizens to Cyprus, it would be easy to send JSOC and SAS operators inside of Israel undetected by Syria/Iran/Hezbollah and get them in the fight. A side question...a former Israeli IDF Commando stated on Fox News that Hezbollah was very well trained and was trained as well as the Iranian Revolutionary Guard...would this mean that Hezbollah is a equal match for regular IDF soldiers?
 
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mough    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/20/2006 12:14:00 AM
What are the odds that JSOC and Western SOF (most notably the SAS) units are involved in the Israeli/Hezbollah conflict? With the arrival of US and British Ships meant to evac US/British citizens to Cyprus, it would be easy to send JSOC and SAS operators inside of Israel undetected by Syria/Iran/Hezbollah and get them in the fight.<< there are no odd's to give as it's highly unlikly, this is a Hezbollah/Isreali show, it's a localized dispute, oh I'm sure the US is providing intell to the Isreali's on certain thing's, but ground forces, even JSOC one's....no , the closest thing to that, is the small JTF2 team that's protecting the Canadian PM while he is over there. the risk's of a compromised op are too great, and if American's are found to be openly operating alongside Isreali's against arab's, then you can forget the US ever being trusted there again <
 
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GOP    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/20/2006 9:49:49 AM
>>there are no odd's to give as it's highly unlikly, this is a Hezbollah/Isreali show, it's a localized dispute, oh I'm sure the US is providing intell to the Isreali's on certain thing's, but ground forces, even JSOC one's....no , the closest thing to that, is the small JTF2 team that's protecting the Canadian PM while he is over there. the risk's of a compromised op are too great, and if American's are found to be openly operating alongside Isreali's against arab's, then you can forget the US ever being trusted there again<< Thanks for the info, I wasn't sure if this could happen or not. >>< look, most Israeli troop's are conscript's, they do there ime, then go home, they do 1 month a year for the next 15-20 year's I believe, even their SOF's are short term, they pass a gibush and serve out their term, and that's it, some stay on for another turn, but that's really it, Hezbollah are well trained yes, and they are long term, they are a long standing professional military, they wear uniform's, have armour, hell they even have a SOF's branch with combat swimmers! are they up to Israeli standard's in that area, probably not, after all their Iranian trainer's are not, you have to understand, the RG in Iran, is an elite, not so much by training, but by dedication, they are fanatic's, those are the guy's who would lead the suicide wave attack's in the Iran Iraq war, and the sucicidal raid's into Iraq itself, so back to your question, man for man yes they proabably are pretty good, but then Israel does not fight man to man do they.<< Hezbollah has SOF w/Combat Swimmers, wear uniforms, and have armor? They truly must be the 'best' terrorist group in the world. I personally have alot of respect for Hezbollah and the Revolutionary Guard...and definitely not because of their actions, but because of their faith. I am a Christian, and to be honest, if Jesus himself told me to go fight a Russia or China armed with only an AK-47, some homemade rockets, and a Bible, then the odds are definitely slim that I'd go. If only Christians could have the faith that these guys have, then we can change the world in a positive way. Anyway, sorry for the religious part of this, I kind of get off topic often.
 
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Ehran    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/20/2006 11:37:10 AM
If only Christians could have the faith that these guys have, then we can change the world in a positive way. they were called the crusades and it wasn't exactly a rousing success by any standards. religious fervour is a good motivating tool but it's long term effects on world history are pretty much in the loss column.
 
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GOP    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/20/2006 11:47:04 AM
>>they were called the crusades and it wasn't exactly a rousing success by any standards. religious fervour is a good motivating tool but it's long term effects on world history are pretty much in the loss column. << The Crusades weren't motivated by God, they were motivated by Catholic leaders...in a way, the Muslims Jihad is motivated alot in the same way by Imams, although the Koran advocates that the only 3 ways to deal with a infidel is to 1)Convert him, 2)Enslave him, or 3) Kill him. I am not at all advocating any kind of religious fanaticism where we relive the Crusades, I am simply saying that if Christians had the faith in Christ that these Muslims had, then we could really make a difference. Obviously I don't think Christ would like it if we Christians invaded Iran in his name, let's get real here. Just because we have enermous amounts of faith in Christ does not make us violent, in fact, it should make us more compassionate and loving than if we didn't. The Crusades were not caused because of faith in God, it was caused by faith in Catholic leaders. Big difference. I apologize for turning this religious, the original post has been answered by mough.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/22/2006 12:05:27 PM
>>Hezbollah has SOF w/Combat Swimmers, wear uniforms, and have armor? They truly must be the 'best' terrorist group in the world. << Part of the problem Hezbollah presents is that they evolved into an alternative government in Lebanon when things there went south. They don't just have a military, they have a social services wing as well, etc. Add to that the fact that they are very popular with the constituents both for ideological reasons as well as the most basic fundamentals of providing some security and order in their zones of control and you have a real problem for what passes for an official government in Lebanon, even without any consideration of the Hezbollah versus Israel dimension. As for their troop quality -- the IDF can and will smash Hezbollah anytime they opt to get involved in a stand up fight. Better troops, better leadership, and technological overmatch. But it is not just about who can win a stand up fight -- if Hezbollah can go toe to toe and cause the IDF high casualties, or if they can manage to get the IDF to go heavy on the collateral damage, they win in the eyes of some people . . .
 
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smitty237    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/24/2006 1:16:34 AM
Well said, Horsesoldier. Hezbollah has become a proxy Islamo-Fascist stat in Southern Lebanon. It has its own social services and its own military. Hezbollah is no match for the IDF, but on a small unit level it would probably hold its own against the conscripts of the IDF. The IDF has the edge in manpower, firepower, and technology, and that is why it will prevail against Hezbollah. I would only anticipate seeing Western SOF forces in the event that westerners are taken hostage. The only thing that could throw a wrench in the works is if Syria sends in ground troops. That could very well provoke a Western response, probably in the form of air strikes from bombers and strike aircraft launch from aircraft carriers in the Med, but that's another post...........
 
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mough    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/24/2006 9:21:33 AM
As for their troop quality -- the IDF can and will smash Hezbollah anytime they opt to get involved in a stand up fight. Better troops, better leadership, and technological overmatch. But it is not just about who can win a stand up fight -- if Hezbollah can go toe to toe and cause the IDF high casualties, or if they can manage to get the IDF to go heavy on the collateral damage, they win in the eyes of some people . . .<< Hezboallah seem to be giving the IDF a good fight in those 2 village's on the border, they are using a vietcong style defence, tunnels, concealed tranch line's ect, seem's the IDF is having trouble pushing them out
 
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GOP    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/24/2006 10:43:44 AM
>>Hezboallah seem to be giving the IDF a good fight in those 2 village's on the border, they are using a vietcong style defence, tunnels, concealed tranch line's ect, seem's the IDF is having trouble pushing them out << The idea that the IDF is the best trained military force in the world is quickly fading...Hezbollah seems to be holding their own unforunately. Sure, the IDF will win, but how long will it take and how many IDF soldiers will it cost?
 
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Old Grunt    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/24/2006 11:07:35 AM
"The idea that the IDF is the best trained military force in the world is quickly fading..." The only people who held that opinion were those who had never worked with, or fought against, the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebonese, or Jordanians. The IDF is no better trained than any other first or second world power, it's their opponents who routinely are substandard.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:JSOC and Western SOF in Israeli/Hezbollah conflict   7/25/2006 1:21:48 PM
Like Old Grunt said, nobody who really looked at the situation has ever felt that the IDF were the best trained military in the world -- a real read of their history reveals they have made some pretty big misteps, have their strong and weak points in terms of doctrine and training like everyone else, etc. Their reputation is built on fighting some of the worst major militaries the world has ever produced -- if you're opponents are all JV Junior High School football teams, you don't have to be the best team in the NFL to rack up some real impressive wins. That said, the Israelis are pretty good, and tend to be good at the kind of things soldiers tend to admire -- flexibility, ability to manuever and think on their feet, etc. They aren't ten feet tall, but they're quite good for a conscript force. I do think, however, that they've probably lost a step or two from their 1960s and 70s incarnation simply because they've been forced to focus on operations peculiar to the Intifada. It's very hard, especially in a small nation and military like Israel, to be actively involved in one kind of war and simultaneously prepare and train for another.
 
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