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Subject: I am now a believer in Crossfit
GOP    6/26/2006 11:35:39 PM
Kind of off-topic, but if your goal is to be in a special operations, then the program I'd use is definitely Crossfit. Holy Crap, I thought I was in good shape (well, my numbers are really good), but I did today's WOD (Max rounds in 20 minutes of 21 jumping pullups and 15 barbell thrusters with 65lbs) and I only got 4 rounds (some lady got 6 rounds and 21 jumping pullups)...I dang near puked (kind of opened my eyes as to what shape I was in)
 
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USN-MID    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit...Hey MID!   6/30/2006 9:53:59 PM
Definitely, hardening up is essential. If nothing else, I say you gotta learn how to eat/defend against painful shots. No better way than going to Muay Thai sparring and getting leg kicked, head kicked, front kicked, and punched all over your body. IMO you need to learn the effects of empty hand techniques before you can really trust them...also need to learn how to target the strikes. But kali isn't just armed defense...it just happens to be one of the very few options out there in terms of weapons training, and pretty much the only one with "knifefighting" so it gets that label. Another problem is there are so many different styles newcomers don't know what they'll get. People into the stickfighting/dueling only will be pretty happier with the Largo styles, but in a military H2H or SD sense, it's pretty inadequate. You're never going to square off with the other guy and draw knives. Pekiti Tirsia is legit...it's the system taught to Filipino Force Recon Marines. Here's a vid of some of what they do: http://rochesterkali.com/current_applications.wmv Atienza Kali is a smaller system, a family style based out of NYC. http://www.atienzakali.com/pages/videogallery2.html Their mass attack clip is a good demonstration of how they train to deal with not being ready to deploy the knife when attacked, as well as how to deal with multiple attackers. Note how he uses empty hand techniques to give him the opportunity to draw, and smoothly transition to kill. At the same time, with multiple attackers, he uses positioning to ensure he's never surrounded by using the wall, circling, etc. I personally do Pek T, but what I saw from the videos is similar to what we do. Not that I'm claiming it's the be all end all either...we borrow some "finishers" from BJJ...but alot of FMA concepts let you transition into an advantageous position to apply submissions/chokes without having to take it to the ground first. If nothing else, you'll learn how to disorient the other guy by putting yourself in positions where he can't really hurt you seriously, while you can unload into his blind spots. So far, i think FMA has been pretty good about avoiding the flash and jazz many other martial arts are falling into, while also avoiding the watering down the sport oriented ones get hit with. We'll just have to see how long that lasts though... Haven't trained LOTAR myself...I haven't lived long enough to really try them all out. :P But from what I hear it's another RBSD similar to Krav Maga, Defendo, Vunak, etc. right? Covering transitioning to ranges, closing, then using the more dominant techniques inside?
 
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GOP    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit - Cato   7/1/2006 12:20:17 PM
>>I know some swear by it, but it looks like a fantastic way to tear ligament,muscle and tendon<< Only if you don't warm up or use bad form (mainly on the oly lifts). As far as the Boxing/Muay Thai goes, I go today at 2:00 to start MMA instruction (the guy who developed it was a former professional MMA fighter with several pro bouts under his belt)...it incorporates Boxing, Kickboxing, Jiujitsu, Greco-Romanain wrestling, takedown defense, and conditioning. Of course, I
 
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GOP    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit - Cato...sorry, left out alot of my post   7/1/2006 12:23:44 PM
>>I know some swear by it, but it looks like a fantastic way to tear ligament,muscle and tendon<< Only if you don't warm up or use bad form (mainly on the oly lifts). As far as the Boxing/Muay Thai goes, I go today at 2:00 to start MMA instruction (the guy who developed it was a former professional MMA fighter with several pro bouts under his belt)...it incorporates Boxing, Kickboxing, Jiujitsu, Greco-Romanain wrestling, takedown defense, and conditioning. Of course, I won't be able to actually do any real bouts for awhile (18, and also have to earn a spot on the competition team, which could be difficult), but I will be able to spar soon, if not right away (They have open mat today). Mainly doing it for sport and as a way to get a good cardio workout, but it also has other good side effects (self defense and mental toughness as one). Never been punches/kicked/elbowed/kneed by a mixed martial artist, so I am guessing the first strike will be a memorable one :)
 
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GOP    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit   7/1/2006 5:53:52 PM
Unfortunately, the MMA stuff fell through today. We called the instructor twice throughout this week with no answer, and today we were going to go to the gym where he supposedly "trains at" (according to his website), but he wasn't there and the gym has never heard of him (the manager had no idea who he was). This has happened every time I have tried to take any form of MMA, but I'll keep trying to find someone. I am probably going to start taking BJJ in 2-3 weeks, because I know for a fact these guys are legit...not the martial arts I wanted to take, but it's a start. Right now the goal is to start BJJ and master it (which could obviously take years), then move on to Muay Thai. I am mainly doing it for competition and exercise anyway...so as long as it can better my conditioning along with teaching me a practical skill and I am able to compete, then I am all for it.
 
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USN-MID    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit   7/1/2006 8:52:45 PM
GOP weren't you in the USMC DEP a few months back(been a while since I visited SP, had to go cold turkey for a while)? How's that going? Anyway, I really have to caution you against getting so caught up in the recent MMA craze that you don't do a good QA check on where you're learning from. Better to specialize in Muay Thai or BJJ or whatever, and learn from somebody who's really top notch rather than from a half ass "MMA" guy. Unlike other martial arts, there's no real good quality control for MMA. In other words, the US Thai Boxing Association isn't going to let a guy who's not qualified represent them as an instructor. Same goes for BJJ...the Gracies don't hand out black belts like candy. And besides, the top MMA pros never trained in "MMA." They became very, very good at one thing...then shored up their weaknesses by cross-training to become well-rounded fighters. I could rattle off the names of just about all the top guys out there, including what their specialty/starting art was for you if you're not convinced. I'd still recommend FMA/Silat if you're more interested in self-defense than competition though. :P Seriously, even Ken Shamrock admitted he ran like hell when somebody pulled a knife on him.
 
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GOP    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit   7/1/2006 9:20:37 PM
>>GOP weren't you in the USMC DEP a few months back(been a while since I visited SP, had to go cold turkey for a while)? How's that going?<< Not me, I am only 16. You are probably thinking of "ZackG" I think (?). As far as the Martial Arts...the guy was supposedly a professional fighter with several bouts under his belt, but his program mixed all of the disciplines into one. Never talked to the guy in person or on the phone (wouldn't answer any calls), so not positive. Unfortunately, there is no Muay Thai classes anywhere in my state that I can find online, so I am going to stick with BJJ for awhile (God, I hope it works out this time) and do heavy/speed bag work for striking on my own. What is your opinion of BJJ? Good, bad, what?
 
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USN-MID    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit   7/1/2006 10:34:57 PM
"Unfortunately, there is no Muay Thai classes anywhere in my state that I can find online, so I am going to stick with BJJ for awhile (God, I hope it works out this time) and do heavy/speed bag work for striking on my own. What is your opinion of BJJ? Good, bad, what?" None in your state? Where do you live, Nebraska? If you live in a coastal state, or one with military bases, there is practically guaranteed to be a good martial arts school in your area. The coasts have a lot of the immigrant populations that bring the arts, and the military bases are known to be good places to open up self-defense schools. Tell me what state you're in, and the nearest city and I'll try to help you out. BJJ is very good. It's true that it's really only useful when you're up in a 1v1, but it's still worth learning. Even if you don't always have the time/opportunity to apply a submission, it's worth learning how to get out from underneath a 275lb monster who just tackled you from the side. I don't recommend hitting a bag unless you get at least some minimal striking training. I don't care if you live in Hicksville, Oklahoma, every US state has a boxing gym. If you can't do Muay Thai, boxing is good too...Muay Thai pretty much uses the exact same hand techniques as boxing. In fact, boxing has become the style of choice for sport hand techniques. Does your high school have wrestling? That's another good option which should be available in all US states. Many arts can teach you what to do when you are in a dominant advantageous position...wrestling will teach you HOW to achieve that dominant position. Look at how well Matt Hughes does.
 
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GOP    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit   7/2/2006 12:39:25 AM
I live in Alabama (Hicksville :), the nearest city is Birmingham. No Muay Thai in my searches on google. Is BJJ any good for self-defense? I know their is a boxing gym that also offer BJJ (the guy has trained with several major UFC guys, including Skip Hall)...so I could possibly take BJJ and Boxing, which would be a good option. I'd definitely prefer Muay Thai as the primary option, but I can't find a gym. If you can, I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
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USN-MID    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit   7/2/2006 2:01:08 AM
"I live in Alabama (Hicksville :), the nearest city is Birmingham. No Muay Thai in my searches on google." Damn you weren't kidding. No pure Muay Thai gyms. I asked around and got two links: 1)http://www.hardcorejkd.com/ -I'm not too keen on this one. From the website, it seems way too nose in the air stuck up, and practically worships Bruce Lee. On the other hand, it's hard to find people with a pretty direct connection to Bruce Lee. Might be worth checking out, might not. 2)http://www.branafightingsystem.com/ These guys look pretty good. For one, they hosted an Atienza Kali seminar pretty recently, and I KNOW the Atienza guys are highly respected FMA(Filipino MA) guys. They offer an integrated curriculum, utilizing Muay Thai techniques. Honestly, there's a lot of overlap between FMA and Muay Thai techniques so you may be happy here. In fact, where I train we crosstrain FMA and MT simply b/c the overlap from FMA(which teaches based on principles-how to put yourself where you can hit him and he can't hurt you) flows very well into Muay Thai(which is taught to a "technique"-how to hit someone...really hard). They also offer a grappling curriculum, I don't know if it's FMA Dumog(great takedowns-VERY disorienting to be on the receiving end) or just plain BJJ. And you'll get to play with knives. How cool is that? :P Check it out if you can. Most MA schools let you take a trial class or at least sit in on one...watch how they train. If you're a novice, you're going to want to have people patiently explaining and taking things SLOW...make sure you get the fundamentals right. "Is BJJ any good for self-defense? I know their is a boxing gym that also offer BJJ (the guy has trained with several major UFC guys, including Skip Hall)...so I could possibly take BJJ and Boxing, which would be a good option." In MMA competitions, just about all the top notch pros take boxing hands, Muay Thai low kicks, wrestling shoots, and BJJ submissions. You'd be getting two of the basic elements. Not bad at 16. :P When it comes to self-defense, it's important to understand MMA/BJJ/any art is not necesarily the same thing as self-defense. Fights that start with punching can easily escalate to eyegouging and biting or even knives, particularly when alcohol is involved right? And even if you've trained to knifefight, if you're taught properly, what you'll really learn is just how dangerous knifefighting is. I've "died" many times in training. I may be better prepared than the average Joe, but I'm really glad I haven't had to try it for keeps yet. So train because you enjoy it. That should be the first priority. I love the people where I train, I've got a great instructor, it keeps me sharp mentally and physically, and why yes, it's pretty good for SD also.
 
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Cato    RE:I am now a believer in Crossfit...GOP   7/2/2006 4:10:01 PM
GOP, USN-MID has broken it down pretty damn well.From my personal experience, you should look for a few things when you sit in for your obligatory free class or two. 1)Stay FAR, FAR, FAR away from a style or school which proclaims to be the "ULTIMATE" anything. 2)Does the class consist of the students sitting on their asses, watching an instructor go through the motions, or are you on your feet with your heartrate at the aerobic for the duration of class (see #3)? 3)Does the instruction operate on a three minute boxing clock? 4)Ropework makes the man. How much rope-jumping does the curriculum include? 5)Never trust a fighting style where the hands are held below the chin while in your stance. 6)Flying kicks are for fags 7)If you are into ring-sports (boxing, MT, etc.) make sure that the style fights using boxing rules (fighting for a knock-out) rather than fighting for "points". TKD and hapkito don't generally. 8)Nobody cares if the teacher can break boards with his hands. 9)Make sure that the gym caters to those who are in it for fitness, and overall toughnes. Some places (especially traditional boxing gyms) have getting in the ring competitively as part of the program. 10)Does the gym have prohibitions about teaching thugs? For instance, at the gym where I began training MT, showing up with shiners to Saturday morning class w/o adequate reasoning could get your membership yanked. 11)Never trust a style that dosen't throw hook-punches. http://www.usmta.com/CAMP-SCHOOL-FRAME.htm This is the link to the USMTA. There is a school is 'Bama, but I don't think it is near your neck of the woods. My suggenstion would be to e-mail the instructor for advice. Oftentimes traditional boxing gyms will have an instructor that splits time teaching MT. The guy in the link would probably have his ear to the ground WRT opportunities in the state. Oh, yeah STAY AWAY FROM AMERICAN KICKBOXING!!!!!! No knees, elbows, or meaningful clinch fighting instruction. These are the things that make MT effective on the street. Good luck and good hunting, amigo! Cato
 
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