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Subject: US Army Rangers or Green Berets
GOP    8/1/2005 1:52:37 PM
Although the Rangers are considered a SOF group, they are basically highly trained light infantry (some consider them the best light infantry in the world). Green Berets are considered a more elite and more highly trained group, designed for DA, SR, and the training of foreign militaries/insurgent groups. I have two questions: 1) The US Army Rangers have, from what I have read, tougher training then the Green Berets. Is this true, and if so, how are the Green Berets more elite? 2) If your goal is to be in Delta force, which of the two organizations would be the better choice to get to Delta? The Rangers work with Delta force alot as a blocking/security force, and the Green Berets are more of a classical special ops group.
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Irsrng   8/26/2005 9:52:53 AM
Here's the story from yesterday I dodn't have time to tell you. In 1986 as I said, we had a mix of 11B mech types and 11Bs who had been sent down from Unter for a variety of reasons. The Ranger battalion guys were all talking trash about how great Airborne was and that mech sucked. This was 3 weeks before we started Bradley NET and everyone would convert to 11M. My guys right from Benning were psyched but were getting bumbed out from all of the Airborne talk. I talked to my 1SG on how to handle this dissension without squashing the former Battalion guys. Here is what we did. I took FM 25-1 (the Bradley Gunnery Manual) to formation one day and read reads from Chapter 8. Unusual Engagement Techniqes....Engaging Falling Paratroopers. "If paratrooper is with 800 meters, select COAX and fire 15 - 20 round burst aiming half a man form below falling paratrooper. If beyond 800 meters select 25 mm High Explosive Dual Purpose and fire 8 - 12 round bursts aiming a full man form below fallling paratrooper." Closed the manual and turned the company back over to the 1SG. He told me you could hear a pin drop after that. Never heard much about airborne after that!
 
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lrsrng    RE:Irsrng   8/27/2005 8:39:49 AM
Thats pretty clever and funny.
 
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hist_ed    RE:US Army Rangers or Green Berets   9/16/2005 12:34:22 PM
"My goal is to get to Delta (by the grace of God), and yes, I know how unlikely that is, etc etc etc... but that is definitely my goal" Hey GOP I am not qualified to add to the military side of this discussion, but I will tell you what I tell my students when they talk about their goals: Have a backup plan or two. Usually I say this to some kid with a D average who tells me "my grade don't matter 'cause I'm gonna be a rapper/rock star/NBA player" It sounds like you are head and shoulders above that type, but keep an alternate option or two in mind. By the way, most of my colleagues in the faculty lounge would be horrified to read what you have written. While they don't overtly discourage students from considering the military its pretty apparent to all that they are distressed when they hear about it. Last year we graduated a guy who is now in the marines. He figured out pretty quickly not to talk about it with most of his teachers. Now they wonder why I am the only one who he bothers to email with the occasional progress report.
 
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GOP    RE:US Army Rangers or Green Berets - Hist_ed   9/16/2005 11:19:09 PM
I have been 'developing' a back-up plan. I will try to get to the 82nd Airborne, at a minimum. If I make it there, then I will try to get to the 75th Ranger battalion. From there, either Delta or SF (Delta is not very likely, but I pray that I will one day be in SFOD-D). So, if I happen to get 'stuck' in the 82nd (not a bad place to be 'stuck' in), I will be on the same base as Delta. If it looks like I will be at the 82nd for my career, then I will go through OCS, and try to work my way up to get command of a company-sized airborne force (I really don't know what a company sized airborne force is called). If I prove to be a leader in the 82nd, then the SF might want me. Of course, the most important things for me to work on right now is grades and physical fitness. I still want to attend college at West Point, so my grades have to be very good, along with my SAT score (although I am only in 10th grade, I need to get prepared for the SAT, I have heard that is very important for getting into college). I have to say, I am very proud of my history score. I have a 97 in it (I am guessing you are a history teacher?)
 
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hist_ed    RE:US Army Rangers or Green Berets - Hist_ed   9/19/2005 3:59:46 AM
For most schools your SAT score is second only to GPA for entry (I don't know about the service academies though). If your school offers it, take an economics class. Sounds boring to many, but a decent economics class will teach you more about current and past politics (and how ridiculous most politicians are) than most US government classes. Not really much prep for a military career, just something I think every high school student should take (I'll admit I love teaching econ, but it is an elective at my school so we rarely offer it). Yes I teach history. Every once in a while, if I am lucky, I get a couple of US government classes, or even the aforementioned econ class. I love history, but teaching a second class instead of five periods of the same one makes the day go by faster . . .
 
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shek    RE:US Army Rangers or Green Berets - Hist_ed   9/19/2005 1:06:20 PM
Hist_ed, The important thing for a person to be successful in the military is the ability to think, communicate, and apply problem solving skills. That's why retired military personnel are in high demand in the civilian job market. Heck, I was an economics undergrad and while I certainly didn't discuss supply and demand with my soldiers, I learned how to think through problems, and that was the important skill.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:US Army Rangers or Green Berets - Hist_ed   9/20/2005 3:48:54 PM
>>I have been 'developing' a back-up plan. I will try to get to the 82nd Airborne, at a minimum. If I make it there, then I will try to get to the 75th Ranger battalion. From there, either Delta or SF (Delta is not very likely, but I pray that I will one day be in SFOD-D).<< You can enlist directly on a Ranger contract or into the SF 18-X program. If you go in with a Ranger contract and don't make it past RIP, you'll be likely to wind up in the 82nd anyway. I'd recommend skipping the spin on the conventional side and going directly with the Rangers or the 18-Xray program. When you talk to a recruiter don't flex on the issue -- he or she may try to sell you on the merits of being an airborne infantryman (or airborne bath & laundry specialist) or whatever else, but if they don't want to play ball, don't play ball. Needs of the service change throughout the fiscal year, so checking back in a couple of months may generate a different response. Unless you're about to go to debtors prison, I'd advise against just taking whatever they offer you, as I've seen some guys come out very much on the wrong end of such deals . . . Also, you could talk to the USAF. Entry requirements for the PJs are cast-iron hard, but requirements to get into the Combat Controller pipeline were lowered, last I heard (though requirements increase as you move into the training pipeline). >>So, if I happen to get 'stuck' in the 82nd (not a bad place to be 'stuck' in),<< Uh, that particular beauty is strictly in the eye of the beholder, I fear. My current NCOIC spent a couple decades in 7th Group and Bragg and I don't think he'd wish a spin in the 82nd on anyone . . . >>I will be on the same base as Delta.<< You'll see more of those fellows if you go into the Rangers than you will in the 82nd. >>If it looks like I will be at the 82nd for my career, then I will go through OCS, and try to work my way up to get command of a company-sized airborne force (I really don't know what a company sized airborne force is called).<< Um, it's called a Company, unless it is an artillery unit (Battery) or a cavalry unit (Troop -- or Squadron in the UK, but that's another story entirely). >>If I prove to be a leader in the 82nd, then the SF might want me.<< They might, but you need to bear in mind that you have much better odds of making it into SF, the Ranger Regiment, Delta, etc., as an enlisted soldier than as an officer for the simple reason that there are more enlisted troops in all of those units than there are officers. Also, if you go SF as a captain you're going to spend about 24 months on a team, and then its on to staff, SF company command (perhaps), etc. You're special operations career will amount to two years as an actual operator/trigger puller/etc. After that you're a paper work generator (admittedly in a pretty cool section of the military). If you go enlisted you can spend an entire career as an operator (+/- a stint here or there in some staff or admin capacities). >>Of course, the most important things for me to work on right now is grades and physical fitness. I still want to attend college at West Point, so my grades have to be very good, along with my SAT score (although I am only in 10th grade, I need to get prepared for the SAT, I have heard that is very important for getting into college). I have to say, I am very proud of my history score. I have a 97 in it (I am guessing you are a history teacher?)<< If you are wanting to go to West Point, you probably also need to look at activities/sports/etc. Being the captain or president of some club(s) or team(s) at school looks very good to the service academies, and carries a lot of weight with them. If you are intent on getting a commision, I would recommend trying to branch infantry, go to the 82nd as a 2nd lieutenant, and then pick up a platoon command in the 75th afterwards as an entry point for Army SOF. Or aviation and then into the 160th, but I don't personally know anything about that particular route. (As a side note, you should probably apply to all the service academies -- I believe the USN and USAF give precedence to service academy types getting into BUDS or the AFSOC pipelines . . . though you'll still have to make it through after that.) But of course, in most SOF contexts, officers are just along to catch blame when things go bad -- I'd still recommend enlisted (or warrant officer) status if you want to get into USASOC . . .
 
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hist_ed    one more bit of advice   9/21/2005 10:11:51 PM
If the SAT is as important to service schools as it is to most civilian colleges then I heartily suggest you prep for it. If it is ok financially there are some comercial prep course you can take. Full disclosure: I occasionally work for one of those companies teaching a GRE prep course. Just knowing how the test questions are written before you go in is a great advantage. Take practice tests as well. If you can't take a course then get some books and software and hit them hard (I'd do this summer 2006 so it doesn't mess with your school work and then shoot for an early fall exam date). The most important thing is to take several practice tests under testing conditions, so have someone time you and score it for you. There are a lot of little tricks that help you out as well. The SAT has actully come under some fire by college administrators. The UC system has de-emphasized it recently and some of the ivies may follow suit so before you invest a lot of time &/or money check with your target schools to see how the weigh it. Cheers, Hist_ed
 
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lrsrng    RE:one more bit of advice   9/23/2005 5:17:00 PM
Gop Horsesoilder says go for SF or Ranger because if you fail you will end up in the 82nd anyway.Your young your you have plenty of time build your Skills and meantal toughness.You can do this in the 82nd.This will greatly increase your chances in succeding to your ultimate goals.If you are considering the military as a carrer there is no rush.
 
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GOP    RE:US Army Rangers or Green Berets - Hist_ed   9/24/2005 11:57:45 AM
>"Also, you could talk to the USAF. Entry requirements for the PJs are cast-iron hard, but requirements to get into the Combat Controller pipeline were lowered, last I heard (though requirements increase as you move into the training pipeline)."< Can you please explain to me what PJ's and CCT teams do? What do they specialize in, what is their primary mission, etc? I have tried to research them, but I can't find anything about them that is worth noting
 
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