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Subject: Devgru training/selection process
GOP    5/20/2006 6:56:44 PM
Sorry, this is not another "who's better trained" thread, but does anyone have any info on Devgru's training? I haven't found any open source info on their selection process, and was just curious if anyone knew anything about their training?
 
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mough    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/21/2006 7:48:48 AM
and you won't find any, DEVGRU are as tight as a duck's bottom about everything, after Mr Marchinko's little escapades. but it's not too dis-similar to what CAG do but with slightly more focus on NSW, and it's less a selection more of an invitation to try process, there have been lot's of very good SEAL's, the best in fact, who have failed in attempt's to join DEVGRU, that just show's how hard it is.
 
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Ehran    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/21/2006 11:54:05 AM
i've read the washout rate is 75% for final selection.
 
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GOP    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/21/2006 1:16:42 PM
>>and you won't find any, DEVGRU are as tight as a duck's bottom about everything, after Mr Marchinko's little escapades. but it's not too dis-similar to what CAG do but with slightly more focus on NSW, and it's less a selection more of an invitation to try process, there have been lot's of very good SEAL's, the best in fact, who have failed in attempt's to join DEVGRU, that just show's how hard it is.<< That is what I figured...Iit is probably best that they are quit about things. I was just curious as to how a SEAL would prepare for Devgru training, if they were invited.
 
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mough    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/22/2006 6:17:26 AM
i've read the washout rate is 75% for final selection.<< yep, and those guy's are all SEAL's starting out, tough as my Mother, and she's hardcore :)
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/22/2006 9:49:32 AM
>>That is what I figured...Iit is probably best that they are quit about things. I was just curious as to how a SEAL would prepare for Devgru training, if they were invited. << Most likely hitting the PT a bit harder than normal to get into top shape and probably not anything else. One presumes DEVGRU's assessment process for potential new recruits will not involve anything new to a trained SEAL, but simply demonstrating you can do the things a trained SEAL should be able to do in a top-of-your-game, even under sucky conditions and with tons of self-induced stress weighing on you, sort of way. Of course, I might be wrong, and the real weedout might be after everything else when potential new members are brought into a classroom and told they have 30 minutes to solve a number of differential equation problems . . . but that's not what I'd put money on . . . And, your question presumes that DEVGRU calls and says, "Chief Schmedlap, we'd like to evaluate you in four months, get ready . . ." I would not rely on that being the case.
 
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mough    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/22/2006 10:08:42 AM
Horsesoldier, your partly right, have to thread carfully here, opsec,, yes they have to preform at the top level expected, but also they have to show competency in thing's a normal SEAL wouldn't be particularly knowlagable in, it's more like SAS continuation, your being evaluated while being trained, some guy's, great combat swimmer's,ect don't make it, because of the more constrained, if that's the right term, nature of the work, although the majority of failure's are the usual, injuries, failure to meet target's, quiet a high proportion are the "Mate call", ie, the DS call a guy in for a chat and basically tell him that he's great and all, just maybe this is not what he's most suited for, just because these guy's are SEAL's, does not mean they are cut out for the very sneaky beaky World of what a tier 1 unit might be doing, a guy may be able to swimm mile after mile and blow aship up, it doesn't mean he could for example infiltrate a city as was done by the Brit's in Basra during OIF
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/22/2006 10:14:56 AM
I'd agree the less said about portions of special unit's missions/capabitlieis that go outside the Hollywood-centric realm of direct action, probably the better. But strictly talking about prepping for evaluation, there's not a whole lot one can do to prepare for the really secret squirrel side of Tier One operations, in any case . . .
 
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mough    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/22/2006 11:28:28 AM
But strictly talking about prepping for evaluation, there's not a whole lot one can do to prepare for the really secret squirrel side of Tier One operations, in any case . . .<< I phrased that poorly, they are looking more for the adabtability and capability to do such work, and not everyone,and sometimes not even "regular" SEAL's are ....cut out for this type of thing, alot of it's monotanous and boring, a bit like police work sometimes, some guy's just don't like it, alot of the back role CT gig, is hurry up and wait, and to a guy coming from a go go SEAL team, it might not be what they were expecting or want.
 
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Ehran    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/23/2006 11:40:58 AM
i've read the washout rate is 75% for final selection.<< yep, and those guy's are all SEAL's starting out, tough as my Mother, and she's hardcore :) minor miscue there. it was the seal course itself that had a 75% washout rate not devgru. sorry.
 
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mough    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/23/2006 12:14:43 PM
minor miscue there. it was the seal course itself that had a 75% washout rate not devgru. sorry.<< It's not much different for acceptence for DEVGRU, pass/acceptence rate's go between 65-80%, that includes guy's who apply but are not accepted to try out due to whatever reason,it's considerably higher success rate for guy's who get onto the course,an 80%+ pass rate, you have to understand though, not getting in is not really considered a failure back in the team's, they are all SEAL's and if your given the Mate talk" it just mean's this is not a line of the business your suited to
 
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mough    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/23/2006 12:20:29 PM
I did hear though that they have changed DEVGRU selection process and criteria...don't know to what end though, maybe to get more guy's through?
 
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mough    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/23/2006 12:26:27 PM
anyway, my last post here for a while, been a pleasure, see you lad's in the future
 
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GOP    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/23/2006 8:40:00 PM
Good luck mough, and thanks for all your contributions to this board. If this break from SP has anything to do with you being deployed (I certainly don't want any info on this at all), then God speed and thanks for helping the good guys. As far as DEVGRU, their change in training probably doesn't have anything to do with getting more guys through. DEVGRU still holds alot of Marcinko principles (no matter how outdated), and he would never sacrifice training to allow less qualified people in (this is also a very big no-no in the entire SEAL community). I would guess the change probably has much more land-warfare involved, so they can better fulfill their CT role in the GWOT. I know that the "Regular" SEAL Teams are also filling their pre-deployment training with a heck of alot more Land warfare training to allow them to do more land warfare in the GWOT.
 
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EW3    RE:Devgru training/selection process   5/23/2006 10:02:37 PM
When you talk about who is the best, the fact is that all the SOFs in the US and their counterparts in otyher countries are at more or less the same level. They can all run a mile in 6min, swim a mile, and do HALO jumps all day long. The real differentiator is the mental capacity and the mental toughness. When I was in the service most of the SEALs reportedly had GCT/ARI scores around 130, which used to be interpreted as roughly your IQ. In other words these guys are smart. They are all smart. The key to success is being able to adapt to differing circumstances. Can you use that smarts to solve problems you are not trained to solve? Then beyond that you have the mental toughness issue. How long can you handle the waterboard? How long can they put you in a tiny box and stick a snake in there with you before you crack. Most SOFs are tough dudes and they have already been through the preliminaries of adaptability and toughness, but I suspect that Devgru cranks it up a bit. But not in the physical arena, more in the mental arena.
 
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GOP    RE:Devgru training/selection process - EW3   5/24/2006 12:25:02 AM
EW3, I agree 100%. Any dufus can get in shape, but can he solve problems; handle pressure; handle being cold, wet, tired, miserable, and being shot at all at the same time and perform up to standard; etc. Your example of SERE training kind of freaks me out (snakes absolutely freak me out), and I have heard that alot of BUD/S recruits go through SERE training before starting indoc...so that is the second hurdle to get to BUD/S (boot camp first, and they got rid of A-School...it is now the "Seamen to SEAL" program). Kind of off topic, and not sure how much info you can give without breaking rules (I think SERE swears you to secrecy), but is it mentally and physically (from a pain standpoint) harder than BUD/S / SOF training? Is it possible to escape?
 
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