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Subject: NAVY SEALS VS BRITISH SAS
LJ813    7/1/2005 9:34:17 PM
I WILL GO FOR THE NAVY..
 
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Utrinque Paratus       12/26/2009 9:11:52 PM

Are you fucking retarded? SAS have the most physically and metally demanding selection process of any unit in the world. After the demanding physical aspect they then go through the "escape and evade" part of selection, where they need to get to a certain location by a certain time while being persued by a hunter group from the SAS (with only a basic compass and basic hand-drawn map). Even if they manage this they are then all subjected to the interrogation resistance side of the selection where they go through hours and days of stress positions, white noise and interrogations from the hunter team. Only after passing this part of selection will they then go on to the training part of being part of the SAS where they have a year to be reurned back to respective regiments or corps. Navy SEALs on the other hand have the tough pressure of having to

  • At least 6 pull-ups from a dead hang (no time limit) with a competitive count of 11 or more[5][6]
  • Run 1.5 mi (2.4 km) in boots and trousers in under 11:30 with a competitive time of 10:20 or less ( you need 9:30 or less to get into the parachute regiment (before training) ive pulled a 9:01 after sit-ups and push ups)
  • 500 SAS could and would beat 5000 navy SEALs. Look what the para's did in the falklands, they were severely outnumbered by the Argentinian forces but as they were conscripts through concercted efforts from the British armed forces they ended up giving up to a handful of soldiers. The same would happen with the SEALs they are not as well trained or disciplined as the SAS, or the para's or the commando's or the Royal Irish regiment or the scots guards or the welsh guards... the list goes on.

    TBH this is all petty, people eventually end up getting killed no matter how fast you can put on a respirator or iron your shirt. In the end the politicians hold the greatest power.

     
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    Utrinque Paratus       12/26/2009 9:28:17 PM

    If this is the case then why is it that the SEAls are trained by the SAS? and why is it that graduates of westpoint go to Sandhurst for catch-up lessons? And if you knew anything you would know that all soldiers within the British army are always being trained, whether it is qualifications that can be used outside of the forces (all soldiers have this opportunity) or whether it is out on the ranges. And if the SEALs are only trained with the lattest technology then what happens if they lose that equipment behind enemy lines? What then? just because you have superior force or equipment doesnt mean you'll win (look at Stalingrad or even Vietnam) The SAS are trained with a huge variety of weapons, equipment and explosives (going as far as training for driving high ranking people away from ambushes etc). What you are doing here is trying to compare a spanner with a swiss army knife; one can only tighten knuts while the other does this aswell as oipen tins and bottles, sharpen sticks etc etc (i think you know which one is which).

     
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    cwDeici       12/27/2009 11:22:34 AM
    Props and kudos to Urinque (though be careful with language unless someone has used it at you first), the SAS are in fact potentially the best service in the world - though humongous praise goes to SEALS.
     
    Now obviously from Paratus' evidence (though references would be great) SAS is better than SEALs in quite a few areas and have things to teach the SEALS, but I'd wager my silver penny from the American West (no, I don't actually have one but now I think I should buy one so I can say it for realz) that they are better at some things (or tightening nuts if you will). And I'm not saying that out of pity, the SEALS are after all one of the best organizations in the world, even though SAS is clearly better in most areas.
     
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    cwDeici       12/27/2009 11:32:44 AM
    Anyway Yougotyourasskicked, I am ready to be convinced otherwise - that SEALS are better than SAS.
    You have plenty of arguments why SEALS rock, but you really need to argue for SAS as well as unbiased as you can and then compare them. You seem a bit... irate though, but most of us are at least a little angry and tempered.
    At any rate I respect the SEALS a ton and I hope you make it into that most esteemed organization!
     
    God Bless~
     
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    YOUGOTYOURASSKICKED       1/8/2010 3:20:21 AM
    You're comparing the entirety of the SAS's training to the basic PST of the SEAL's.

    Now why don't look at the bigger picture.

    The majority of potential SEALs pass the PST. Wherein they then move on to the First Phase of BUD/S.

    First Phase is where the majority of SEAL candidates DOR; roughly 70% on average. On some cases it has been 100%.

    After First Phase are the Second and Third phases, which I'm not going to go into right now.

    By the way, all US Military combat personnell go through SERE, which resembles the "Escape and Evasion" training you were talking about. 

    The SAS also conduct Domestic as well as Foreign Counter-Terrorism.

    But the SAS tend to be specialists, whereas the SEALs tend to be generalists.

    The SAS are extremely good at getting deep into restricted areas. I can give them credit for that.

    The SEALs operate on many more platforms however:
    Counter-Terrorism
    Unconventional Warfare
    Foreign Internal Defense
    Direct Action
    Special Reconnaissance
    Personnell recovery
    Security
     

    As you can see, the SEALs are much more versatile than the SAS. This tends to lend them an enormous amount of experience, as they have the skills and capabilities to do almost anything with competence. This however, makes the SAS "experts" in their fields of expertise. This leads people to the assumption that the SAS is the best SF in the world simply because they are extremely competent in one or two areas. The SEALs however, can be considered competent enough beat the enemy in almost any way. They're much more versatile, and who you consider better it depends on if you value versatility or invariability.


    Let's look at the combat experience of both units.

    SAS engagements:
    World WarII
    Malayan emergency
    North Ireland (Domestic Terrorism/Revolution)
    Falklands War
    Iraq conflict
    Afghanistan conflict
    Israel hostage situation

    SEAL engagements:
    Vietnam War
    Multi-National Force in Lebanon
    Operation Urgent Fury
    Achille Lauro high-jacking
    Operation Just Cause
    Operation Desert Storm
    Operation Restore Hope
    Battle of Mogadishu
    Operation United Shield
    Operation Red Wing
    Operation Enduring Freedom
    Operation Iraqi Freedom
    Operation High Pursuit

    As you can see, the SEALs resume is much more extensive. Mostly accorded to the fact that they are much more versatile than the SAS. The SEALs however also go through what's considered by many as the toughest military training in the world; making SEALs one of the most versatile and well-trained units in the world.
    Sure, the SAS is well-trained, but the SEALs have the edge due to their versatile skill set. Making the Navy SEALs one of the most respected and highly feared outfits on the planet.

    Anyone willing to rebut?


     
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    Lynstyne       1/8/2010 2:31:58 PM
    Not willing to debate this with you since you are talking mostly out youre arse. both units have strengths and weanesses
    however just for the sake of accuracy for youre wet dreams you missed the following for the SAS
     
    Oman
    Borneo
    South georgia
    Sierra leone
    Gibralter
    Aden
    Croatia/serbia etc  - 
    look up operation nimrod - pretty much what thrust special forces into the lime lite
     
    Im sure others could add more
     
    but dont let facts interrupt your daily dribble fest
     
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    YOUGOTYOURASSKICKED       1/9/2010 4:28:57 AM

    Hmm.....
    Good point. You nailed me on that one.

    But you can't ignore the fact that SEALs are generalists and the SAS are specialists.

    In a matter of personal opinion, I come to the conclusion that being more versatile beats being more experienced in a narrow skill set. Quit lying to yourself, and aknowledge the fact that the US tends to be involved in more of the world's major affairs, requiring units such as the SEALs to be depended upon to delay or even stop conflicts dead in their tracks. I consider it an insult for anyone to underrate the SEALs, and that's just because of my haughty American ego, right?

    Maybe it's something called pride and respect, you should learn what pride and respect are before you try to rebut my reasoning.

     
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    YOUGOTYOURASSKICKED       1/9/2010 4:40:51 AM

    Hmm.....
    Good point. You nailed me on that one.

    But you can't ignore the fact that SEALs are generalists and the SAS are specialists.

    In a matter of personal opinion, I come to the conclusion that being more versatile beats being more experienced in a narrow skill set. Quit lying to yourself, and aknowledge the fact that the US tends to be involved in more of the world's major affairs, requiring units such as the SEALs to be depended upon to delay or even stop conflicts dead in their tracks. I consider it an insult for anyone to underrate the SEALs, and that's just because of my haughty American ego, right?

    Maybe it's something called pride and respect, you should learn what pride and respect are before you try to rebut my reasoning.

     
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    Lynstyne       1/9/2010 5:10:07 AM
    I have both pride and respect - i am not the one claiming A is better than B -
     
    I was trying to point out its a worthless argument  - take any force out of its element and it will be disadvantaged.
     
    read up on afghanistan and the seals
     
    Some seal units fared quite badly in the mountains in the early days - especially when trying to carry heavy loads up them. This was because their physical training has less emphasis on rucking - They emphasised upper body strength (required for swimming).  Other S.F units did not have this problem, did this mke the seals inferior to the SAS - no merely less effective in that enviroment at that time Now obviously the Seals have adapted to the enviroment. (read up on op anoconda)
     
    This is the crux of why its a pointless debate, any skill a force is lacking will be rapidly learnt if required.
     
    I would doubt any S.F force has seen more action than any other - google will only reveal so much.
     
     
     
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    wils32       1/12/2010 5:48:15 AM
    I part of me wants to say the SAS as part of British patriosism but actually in reality they are probably fairly equal. I dont know how militaristically accurate Black Hawk Down is but Im guessing if that was done by British troops then the Marines or Paras would be the Rangers and SAS, the Delta Force.
    The SEALS are much more comparable to the SBS which are less well known, certainly in the UK. For those you have seen the Rock that was perfect scenario for the SEALS, a depot deep in Afghanistan would better be suited to a Delta or SAS attack.
     
    If you want to know how the British Army is perceived look at Call of Duty Modern Warfare, the SAS are chosen as the specialist regiment, ie, the British Army has the best specialists. I know using games and films is not a best way to talk about these men but it does illustrate the points, especially as most of these films have stunt/military advice men who were possibly in these regiments.
     
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