Oh yes, Guinness.... that famous English beer. I fdon't know if I am alone on this, but I found it rather funny when I found out the beer was first brewed in London, and was just a popular import for the Irish until they had a local factory built before the London one closed down.

>>The guy has six years in the Paras, maybe made it to what? The rank of Corporal? that's not a knock on him really. promotion in the commonwealth armies is rather slower than the US army due to less turnover in the ranks. 6 years to make corporal is about right. << I'm not knocking him for only making it to corporal, I'm just saying the guy's a section leader from the Paras who goes SAS and has about a year of team time after the training. That's not a resume that would qualify as "experienced special operator" in my world -- that's a junior weapons/commo/engineer/medical sergeant on an SF ODA, and a very junior one at that. The guy had, apparently, one combat tour with the SAS and it didn't sit right with him for whatever reasons, good or bad, so he chucked it in. I personally think his fear of court martial is an bit of a hysterical red herring, but it's not like he tossed a promising career in the SAS -- I'd think you have to be there for more than 24 months (including training time when you're continued presence is up for debate day to day, etc) to start calling it a career . . .

>>hate to burst your bubble gop but the british managed to move an army the same size (approximately) from kuwait to bagdad back in the 20's in the same time frame using mostly mules for transport. they were also being shot at periodically so it wasn't an unopposed move.<< It's kind of an apples and oranges thing, I admit, but wasn't that army overwhelmed by the Ottomans and forced to surrender, with total losses of around 100,000 personnel? Wait -- that was the nineteen-teens army, not the 1920s one . . .

>>PS: Virtual brownie points for correctly guessing the unit. Meanwhile I will try to get that Kipling poem... << Speaking of Kipling, this "video cameras in combat zones? c'est terribile" thing does call to mind a bit of Mr Kipling's quotable output, namely . . . "An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints: Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; . . ."

Shek, It seems that Petreaus and Dempsy are the golden boys of OIF 1-1.5. I havn't seen much WRT MAJ GEN Odierno. From over here on the civillian side, Odierno was the "kick in the door and break a few eggs to make an omlette", kind of COIN leader. How has his reputation within the Army held up over the last two years? I heard that he recieved this 4th star? I'm just curiious, as GEN Odierno isn't mentioned as part of the 4 star dream team ( Petreaus, Dempsy, Chiarelli). Thaks and Have a Groovy St. Paddy's Day! Cato

"Well vast quantities of Guinness at least give you the ability to see the leprechauns, if not quite be able to catch them " I'm working on it, its only 4:00. Been chasing those little bast*rds for damn near a decade, but this year...(burp)! Soon to be Completely and Humiliatingly Intoxicated Cato (Your local Ambulance Driver)snicker,snicker

See that, and I'll raise ya one! ------------------------------------ A GREAT and glorious thing it is To learn, for seven years or so, The Lord knows what of that and this, Ere reckoned fit to face the foe— The flying bullet down the Pass, That whistles clear: “All flesh is grass.” Three hundred pounds per annum spent On making brain and body meeter For all the murderous intent Comprised in “villanous saltpetre!” And after—ask the Yusufzaies What comes of all our ’ologies. A scrimmage in a Border Station— A canter down some dark defile— Two thousand pounds of education Drops to a ten-rupee jezail— The Crammer’s boast, the Squadron’s pride, Shot like a rabbit in a ride! No proposition Euclid wrote, No formulae the text-books know, Will turn the bullet from your coat, Or ward the tulwar’s downward blow Strike hard who cares—shoot straight who can— The odds are on the cheaper man. One sword-knot stolen from the camp Will pay for all the school expenses Of any Kurrum Valley scamp Who knows no word of moods and tenses, But, being blessed with perfect sight, Picks off our messmates left and right. With home-bred hordes the hillsides teem, The troop-ships bring us one by one, At vast expense of time and steam, To slay Afridis where they run. The “captives of our bow and spear” Are cheap—alas! as we are dear. Thanks, Cato

"Speaking of Kipling, this "video cameras in combat zones? c'est terribile" thing " theres a good line in Thunder Run where one of them asks why another bloke is filming mangled bodies. to paraphrase the response, he says that if his son wants to join the army, then he'll show him the footage to discourage him.

Don't they say that if they had had cameras in the first world war, the outcry, on seeing the slaughter, would have brought the war to a stop. Dulce Et Decorum Est Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind. Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! - An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time; But someone still was yelling out and stumbling, And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime... Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning. In all my dreams, before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning. If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, - My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

Shek, It seems that Petreaus and Dempsy are the golden boys of OIF 1-1.5. I havn't seen much WRT MAJ GEN Odierno. From over here on the civillian side, Odierno was the "kick in the door and break a few eggs to make an omlette", kind of COIN leader. How has his reputation within the Army held up over the last two years? I heard that he recieved this 4th star? I'm just curiious, as GEN Odierno isn't mentioned as part of the 4 star dream team ( Petreaus, Dempsy, Chiarelli). Thaks and Have a Groovy St. Paddy's Day! Cato Cato, I'm not well connected into the "inside the Beltway" decisions since I'm kind of in a no-man's land being at grad school. However, I'm pretty sure that Odierno is only a 3-star - the only info I could find was that he's in a JCS position right now and defenselink didn't have a GO announcement where he was nominated for a 4th star. I think what is most telling is that Petraeus was sent almost immediately back to Iraq to command MSTC-I (I finally heard the acronym pronounced the other day and I won't forget how it goes anymore! "m-sticky"), is now commanding CAC and as such, will have a direct impact on doctrinal development and professional development in the Army, while Chiarelli spent less than a year Stateside and is now commanding the Corps (MNC-I) in Iraq. Meanwhile, LTG Odierno is on a staff instead of being assigned into a position that will put him back in Iraq commanding. Personally, I wasn't not impressed with 4ID in the short time I worked along side of them. They seemed very tired of being in Iraq (I believe they were 7 months into their tour) and heavy handed in their approach - very much a kill the bad guy to make him go away instead of a balance between kill the bad guy and win the population to put pressure on him at both ends. I'm sure that the pressure to bag Saddam probably drove much of this as well as the fact that early on (Tikrit along with 4ID's sector was the most active early on) and after 7 months of that approach, it's hard to shift gears. Anyways, I think you are seeing the guys who excelled in the COIN environment in Iraq are the ones in favor right now - whether this trend will last beyond Schoomaker and beyond our presence in Iraq, who knows.