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Subject: SAS soldier quits Army in disgust at 'illegal' American tactics in Iraq
angryjohn    3/13/2006 10:52:12 AM
This is not meant to be an anti US (thugs) pro Brit (hero) thread, let me make this clear. I am certain the US and UK troops use a variety of different tactics, some conventional, some closer to the bone. However this paints a worrying picture in Iraq to the people at home. My question to SP readers is. Did this trooper make a valid decision? When is it right to disobey orders on moral grounds? Are SF more likely to use unconventional methods and therefore be slightly more relaxed on moral grounds. This is a cross nation SF question, not SAS, Delta, GSG9 thing. http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/12/ixhome.html
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Foreign Country? =)   3/17/2006 11:00:56 PM
>>Don't they say that if they had had cameras in the first world war, the outcry, on seeing the slaughter, would have brought the war to a stop.<< Maybe . . . but they've been filming like mad, and increasingly so, since then, and, as Eric Bogle notes in "The Green Fields of France" (aka "No Man's Land" Wikipedia tells me . . .): "And I can't help but wonder, oh Willie McBride, Do all those who lie here know why they died? Did you really believe them when they told you the cause? Did you really believe that this war would end wars? Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain, For Willie McBride, it all happened again, And again, and again, and again, and again." (One should strictly rely on the Dropkick Murphys cover of this song, along with the Pogues cover of Bogle's "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" for a suitably bleak St Patricks Day rumination on human nature . . . though there are better ways to dip into Irish and Irish-American music on this particular holiday . . .)
 
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EW3    RE:for the stiff upper lip crowd   3/17/2006 11:08:48 PM
before people sling rocks at American GI's for taping videos etc.... and the Brits being more professional - http://www.break.com/index/howtoblowupaboat.html
 
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Yimmy    RE:EW3   3/18/2006 11:13:02 AM
That video really does not prove your point though, but I do see where you are coming from. I saw no jumping around like kids, and heard no heavy metal music.... just a standard sinkex with cheesy backing.
 
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Somerset    RE:for the stiff upper lip crowd   3/18/2006 11:36:51 AM
Look this is not about professionalism. Have we not already decided its a cultural thing? America is Britain's greatest ally. I hope thats reciprocated. We argue over such trivialities because there is no real difference between our two countries. Historically/Philisophically we are so close. The banter between us can be fun, but lets keep it in perspective. If you want division, go and look at the India and Pakistan boards.
 
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GOP    Somerset is exactly right.   3/18/2006 11:41:20 AM
Somerset is exactly right. In fact, now that I think about it, this is kind of funny to begin with. Calling US troops unprofessional because they make video's...calling British troops tight wads, etc. The fact is that we both are extremely close allies (we are basically like brothers, if you want to look at it that way)...and there is no reason to knock each other
 
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Grenadier Voltigeur    RE: Now that's a fact...   3/18/2006 11:55:27 AM
UK has become official USA's b*tch.
 
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EW3    RE:Somerset is exactly right.   3/18/2006 2:07:10 PM
Calm down, I was not trying to divide, just making a point. Enjoyed my time in Portsmouth, the Brits were great hosts... I should point out though that this video had to have been sanctioned by the UK Government and MoD, compared to individuals who come up with similar stuff. To my old ears, "Highway to Hell" sounded rather "loud"....
 
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GOP    RE: Now that's a fact...   3/18/2006 4:10:06 PM
Grenadier, has Germany become France's b*tch? Or maybe Germany and France have become Socialism b*tch. Or maybe Germany, France, and Socialism has become Europe's b*tch. Or maybe not. The fact is that the US and UK agree in alot of things...especially the fact that we think that terrorism is a b*tch. So no, the UK never has and never will be "America's b*tch".
 
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Ehran    RE: Horsesoldier   3/18/2006 5:43:42 PM
i think the first debacle was more a failure of logistics than fighting skill/spirit. not exactly a bit of history i'm up on.
 
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Ehran    RE:for the stiff upper lip crowd   3/18/2006 5:49:23 PM
for brits they were downright hyperactive there EW ;)
 
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