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Subject: I like Tank Destroyers
Volkodav    7/28/2009 7:58:42 AM
I like and always have liked Tank Destroyers but due to Australia's almost total lack of mechanisation at the start of WWII and the subsequent conversion of the bulk of the 2nd AIF into light infantry to fight the Japan in the Pacific there was never the opportunity to deploy this class of vehicle. It is too bad that we weren't able to deploy a tank destroyer or assault gun early in the war in Greece, the Middle East or North Africa inplace of the towed AT guns and light field guns that (when available) supported the 2nd AIF's Rifle Battalions. They would have dramatically increased the fighting power of our Infantry providing direct fire support and may well have turned the course of some battles. Having this kind of firepower, a platoon of 6 to 8 vehicles, embedded in each battalion would have had a lasting effect in the Army, perhaps resulting in a very different structure today. Instead of the ANZAC Legend being recast around Light or Jungle Infantry there is a real chance that the RAR would have had an effective armoured DFS capability from inception, working its way though generations of vehicles to ....? Assuming we started with something akin to a Cruiser MkIII armed with a 3" 20cwt in a casemate we could have moved onto a Crusader with a 17 pounder serving until the late 40's, then a Comet with a 20 pounder for the 50's to mid 60's, finally the S Tank into the 90's. The Tank Destroyers would replace tanks in the infantry and direct fire support role allowing tanks to be concentrated and used to best effect.
 
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doggtag       9/12/2009 8:40:58 AM
Without going into one of those M113-solves-everything websites, there was, years ago, that West German project that mounted a semi-fixed (limited traverse, but excellent elevation) 105mm howitzer into the front of an M113 derivative as a fire support concept.
 
http://www.panzerbaer.de/types...  (saw in a previous SP thread that it was once known as "Gratzl").
Yeah, sorry it's in German, but the best I could do on short notice (and caution not to provoke the sparky-monster)...
 
Don't really see much reason that the Sheridan's bits couldn't have created one, either.
For that matter, anyone with R.P. Hunnicutt's book Sheridan, A History of the American Light Tank, Vol 2, will see entries on the Sheridan that depict the chassis armed with various other armaments: a 76mm gunned turret, a 105mm howitzer equipped turret, even the prototype 105mm low recoil turret for the Stingray light tank.
 
It also shouldn't really be too far out there to envision such an Australian Sturmhaubitze to have been upgunned from 105mm to 120mm if it stuck around long enough (the newer stretched M113 variant should've allowed plenty of internal space).
 
With today's developments of gun-fired PGMs, the idea isn't wholly without some merit, as the vehicle could just as well rely on its tracks for most of its slewing (azimuth), and using the high elevation angles to get to great range (BLOS- Beyond Line Of Sight, as the US Army coined for the FCS program), with the actual PGM doing any necessary azimuth adjustments to fine-tune its course to the intended target.
 
Still, it'd probably just have been better served just to have some Abbot SP artillery around and keep them back a bit from the front. There, a rotating turret meant the vehicle could just sit in one spot and not worry about moving, unless you knew your adversary had counter-battery capabilities.
 
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Volkodav       10/15/2009 7:12:19 AM
Look what I found in the November/December 1983 edition of the Australian Defence Force Journal in an article "The Development of the Mechanised Brigade in Australia" by (then) Captain I.D. Adams, RAAC.
 
 
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doggtag    I see nutting!   10/15/2009 4:23:36 PM
Any chance you can get us a better working pic/link/article?
 
I'm getting the Red X!
 
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Volkodav       10/17/2009 3:24:12 AM

Look what I found in the November/December 1983 edition of the Australian Defence Force Journal in an article "The Development of the Mechanised Brigade in Australia" by (then) Captain I.D. Adams, RAAC.

 



I give up I can't insert it but you can read the article and view the ORBAT's including the conceptional Tank Destroyer at
 
link
 
Basically I discovered that what I though was my brilliant idea had already been put forward, in greater detail, by a professional ADF member 26 years earlier.
 
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