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Subject: Australia's Real Aircraft Carrier
Aussiegunneragain    7/6/2009 3:52:05 AM
With all this discussion about aircraft carriers I thought it a good time to point out that Australia has a real fixed aircraft carrier just 360 km south of Jakarta, complete with a 2103 metre airfield openned in 1974 and an on-site supply of Jet A-1.

www.christmasislandairport.com/

With that in mind I was thinking that a discussion about the potential opportunities that our ownership of Christmas Island presents, as well as how we plan ahead to ensure that we keep it in the event of a conflict, might be in order.
 
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DropBear       7/6/2009 12:36:54 PM
It is a wonder that we didn't turn it into the Oz equivalent of Diego Garcia, Guam or Ascension Island after we gave up having a permanent presence at Butterworth.
 
Couldn't imagine rotating aircrews through there could be any worse than being based in other isolated environs such as RAAF Tindal.
 
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gf0012-aust       7/6/2009 5:04:43 PM

www.christmasislandairport.com/

christmas island is all geared up to take major forces, but it would require some significant changes to it's comms.  unfort, the locals are so fed up with DImmi that they're more lilely to stage their own coup. :)  They're happy with AG's, but DImmi have the majority involvement.....

not sure you'd want to stage anything out there with a hostile population.  on any given day some of the locals would be quite happy to secede from the CoA.  It's the usual, they resent the CoA, but want and need the CoA's money to exist and still look as they are "happy happy joy joy"

 
 
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Herald12345    Eniewietok them and install a missile test range.    7/6/2009 5:17:55 PM
There are answers to ANY problems you find. National security covers almost any injustice. Just ask Robert "the Butcher" McNamara about that.
 
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stingray1003       7/6/2009 7:28:47 PM
I heard there have been much expansion of the facilities at CI from someone who was doing historical research out there recently.
 
I don't think the locals are really any worse than queenslanders about the CoA and gaining independance. Everyone wants more, but are they really going to arm themselves and storm a military installation? We still have bases in Queensland.
 
I think long term it will be more frequently used. Just I think its a bit of pain to fly fighters out there and would need to be essentially a military base to support a fleet of our very valuable tankers (which we don't have right now) and fighter bombers.
 
 Maybe once we get Sh/F-35, drop tanks and several refueling aircraft they might concider operating it more frequently.
 
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gf0012-aust       7/6/2009 9:45:14 PM

I don't think the locals are really any worse than queenslanders about the CoA and gaining independance. Everyone wants more, but are they really going to arm themselves and storm a military installation? 

it was tongue in cheek, but, they do HATE DImmi with a passion.  I had a mate who was the islands administrator. 
 
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Volkodav       7/6/2009 11:26:00 PM
they do HATE DImmi with a passion
 
Who doesn't?
 
They have to be one of  the most totally screwed up departments being both highly politicised and grossly incompetent. Detaining and even deporting seriously ill Australian Citizens who were listed as missing persons, negligently endangering department personnel and civilians with substandard, non compliant equipment (i.e. patrol craft) and don't forget the debacle of the privately run detention centres.
 
I wonder why anyone would dislike them.
 
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DropBear       7/7/2009 12:16:41 AM
We still have bases in Queensland.
 
Due totally to our former illustrious state leader naturally.
 
I remember Beattie crowing about how he made it so Boeing was based in Amberley. Someone forgot to tell him it had more to do with mx on Pigs than his charisma. Not sure Andy Peacock would have agreed with him either.
 
Carry on...
 
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Arty Farty       7/7/2009 1:56:40 AM
West of Xmas Island is the Cocos Islands, 2400m runway, ~700nm from Jakarta. Closer to the Bay of Bengal than Diego Garcia.
 
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Arty Farty       7/7/2009 2:03:15 AM
West of Xmas Island is the Cocos Islands, 2400m runway, ~700nm from Jakarta. Closer to the Bay of Bengal than Diego Garcia.
 
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Arty Farty       7/7/2009 2:04:44 AM
Google maps distance calculator

daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm
 
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BLUIE006       7/11/2009 12:43:33 AM
 
The Island does have a lot of military potential, however a permanent Military Airbase may pose some International relations headaches. Indonesia may not approve?
 
A clandestine submarine pen on the south side of the island for our cruise missile equipped  future subs (Son of Collins) on the other hand.... 
 
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain       7/13/2009 7:44:11 AM
I agree with those who are saying that we wouldn't be starting a military build up on CI any time soon. Apart from the fact that the Indonesians have a nicely burgeoning democracy now and are our friends, it would be expensive and would probably piss the locals off (even though they would like the money).
 
What I am interested in exploring are the capabilities that we have/did have/would (have) need (ed) to rapidly ensure the protection or recovery of, and exploitation the island's military potential in the instance of a souring of relations with Indonesia. I'm thinking about answers covering the periods of the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, now and into the future.
 
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BLUIE006    BATTLE FOR CHRISTMAS- Santa goes Bad   7/18/2009 1:47:26 AM

I quite like this topic, so thought id see if we can?t get the chatter going?

 

Military incursions onto Australia?s external territories such as Christmas or Coco islands are not unthinkable scenarios in the coming 25 years (as we know the political landscape can change very quickly). This is particularly true if Sino Indian relations become tense, the Energy war scenario heated up and/or vital choke points such as Malacca straights become impassable due to environmental terrorism, military activity or climatic event (suggesting the passage of water between Xmas Island & Indonesia could become strategically important).

It is also plausible that due to the ethnic demographics of the Islands other nations would not recognize Australia sovereignty during a time of geo-political hysteria, and see them as their own.  
   Although, it is questionable whether a regional/global power would be willing to take the islands and risk escalation into full scale conflict with Australia & its Allies.
 
 I have chosen to focus my somewhat limited! discussions on the present/future component.
 

Firstly I have considered how someone might take the islands?

 The Islands would need to be taken rapidly and by surprise therefore a naval armada steaming toward the island would probably be undesirable for the aggressor( or the Australian submarine fleet would be making some nice artificial reefs), suggesting an Airborne Insertion of paratroopers or commando?s (possibly via commercial aircraft) to take the airport and port facilities could be the first action, followed by insertion of further air deployable forces and heavy forces (potentially via converted container ships- rapidly rerouting off shipping routes). Followed by deployment of Fighter Aircraft potentially via Myanmar (this would pose some challenges an aggressor, but would not be impossible) (H)

This could be coordinated with deployment of RED attack submarines in the South East approaches to the islands (to fend of any Australian naval task forces that may approach) and the systematic sea (E) and beach mining of appropriate amphibious landing points.
Hypothetical RED Force:
500-2000 Troops (300-500 First Wave )
10-50 Armoured Vehicles
8-12 Strike Fighters
3-5 SSK/SSN
6 Surface Combatants
 
Such an operation would be hugely ambitious and pose a number of challenges, mostly logistical (fuel in particular). Although if successful it may prove difficult for a unilateral Australian operations too retake the islands.

Recovery: Option 1

 

The Canberra class LHD amphibious assault ships would be vital to any attempt to retake the islands; however during transit they would be venerable to submarines and maritime strike aircraft. This suggests AWD, Anti submarine surface ships and attack submarines would be vital. (A)

            The risks posed by naval liberation suggest airborne insertion may be preferred? (assuming the RED fighters can be distracted)

SASR & Commando?s are ideal suited to such a mission, and could be inserted via Air/Sea, however it is questionable whether enough of them could be spared, considering it is likely that other theatres are likely to be exploding at the same time, suggesting they would have a large workload.  This indicates that additional conventional airborne forces would also be needed, the Airborne Battle Group. (B)

Currently the 3rd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment could be called on upon to satisfy majority of this requirement (however their proposed conversion due to the HNA may change this).

 

The Airborne Battle Group would need aircraft to deploy them; C-130 & C-17 could provide this capability, however like the SASR these are likely have a large workload (tied up with traditional transport duties). (C)

 

Obviously such an operation would require Air Support; the RAAF (F/A-18/F/A-18F/ EA-18G/F-35A/Wedgetails) could currently provide CAP/Maritime Strike/Close Air Support and AEW&C however this would be a huge strain on tanker capabilities (D) [F-35B aboard the LHD could be involved in this, should they be acquired in the future]

 

US Military assistance could be obtained from Diego Garcia (the presence of such a large US facility is likely to be a huge deterrent to any aggressor). United States Navy Fifth & Seventh Fleet?s, USMC, US Army Rangers & Airborne forces are likely to be involved. (F)        

 

Could be like a Battle of Crete/ Midway Hybrid ??.

 

 

Protection: Option 1  

 

Raise an additional full time Regional Force Surveillance Unit designed especially to garrison Australia?s various external territories, equip them with low level Surface to Air Missiles (G).

 
 

Build extensive C4I/OTH facilities on these territories (Including hydrophone arrays)

 

Regular routine Naval patrols (Including Submarines) -Operation RESOLUTE

 

Build full scale Naval & Air-force facilities & base capital equipment (Ships-Subs-Fighters).

 

Basing of unmanned vehicles & facilities (Air-Undersea-Surface)

 

 

Notes:

 

A)     Additional AWD, F-35B- LHD based, P-8A

B)      Retention of 3RAR (PARA) [raise additional Light infantry/Mechanized from elsewhere], procurement of airborne fighting vehicles (AFV), re-task the Airborne Battle Group to Special Forces Command. (G)

C)      Additional C-130?s/ Chinooks

D)      Additional Airbus A330-200 aerial refuelling tankers

E)       Effective Minesweepers

F)       Ability to call on allies (regardless of geopolitical climate)

G)      This should seriously be looked at.

H)      A lot depends on the rapid response of the government and rapid deployment may prevent this.

 

Option 1 is based on the assumption that the government requires the recapture of the island quickly and does not want to get involved in a long war (i.e. Option 2) ? Air/Sea Control operations / Attacking SLOC followed by traditional Amphibious assault.

Also- Obviously there are a variety of factors in play & the response depends on other political/military/strategic events at the time.

 

 

With regard to the Indonesia goes bad scenario: Couple of quick points

 

Offence:

 

  1. Obviously the basing of F/A-18F/JSF & Tankers.
  2. Special operations facilities
  3. Naval Facilities & Submarine pens ( Angle of approach & rapid resupply (mines etc) )
  4. Land based cruise missiles

 

 
 
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StevoJH       7/18/2009 12:44:13 PM
F18F's and F35A's destroy enemy airforces and surface vessels, garrison force starves and surrenders.
 
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hairy man       7/18/2009 9:29:07 PM
This could be an interesting exercise, particularly if got one reason or another we could not get assistance from our allies, and had to do the job solely with our own forces. On an exercise such as this it is obvious that 5 tanker aircraft are nowhere near enough.
 
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