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Subject: German bidder holds fire on guns
hairy man    6/23/2009 7:26:05 PM
From "The Australian"
THE army's $450 million plan to acquire new 155mm self-propelled guns faces a one-year delay because of the complexity of the Defence Materiel Organisation's tender process.

The revelation comes as one of the two contenders to supply the artillery declined to participate in the final tender negotiation with the DMO.

German firm Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, whose PzH 2000 gun was favoured to win the contest to supply up to 18 guns to the army, has declined to participate in the offer definition and refinement process with the organisation.

KMW is competing against Raytheon Australia, which is teamed with Korean manufacturer Samsung Techwin, which is offering the AS-9 gun.

Senior government sources told The Australian yesterday that neither tender had fully met the DMO's tough contractual requirements. Only the Raytheon consortium has chosen to continue negotiations with the DMO.

According to informed sources KMW has cited problems with intellectual property as well as a requirement for more equitable risk-sharing with the commonwealth in its decision not to participate in the offer definition and refinement process.

Raytheon is now pushing hard for an early decision but the KMW tender offer will remain on the table and valid until next April.

Last month DMO chief Stephen Gumley told a Senate estimates committee there were a number of "technical issues" that had to be resolved before a decision could be made on a preferred tenderer.

The German firm, which is partnered with BAE Systems Australia, has offered brand new surplus Dutch army guns as part of its tender in the Land 17 project.

The PzH 2000 gun is in service with the Dutch military in Oruzgan province in Afghanistan and has impressed the Australian army with its all-round capability.

A final decision on Land 17, the project that will have the army equipped with both self-propelled and towed artillery, was expected by mid-2009.

The Rudd government's defence white paper, published last month, called for the acquisition of two batteries of self-propelled guns (a total of 12 guns) and four batteries of towed guns.

The Defence Department hopes to wrap up a decision on the towed artillery later this year, with the M777 howitzer, built in the US by BAE Systems, expected to be chosen.
 
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gf0012-aust       6/28/2009 5:19:05 PM

Ministerial responsibility is important but you can't deny that Defence (civilian and the ADF) has some unique cultural issues that make it a particular challenge for Ministers to deal with. They have gone through Defence Minister every two years for over a decade largely for that reason. The Ministers have to be able to rely on their Department for advice to make those rules and if the Ministers are looking outside for advice that reflects poorly on Defence. At the end of the day people in the Department are paid pretty good taxpayer funded incomes to conduct themselves professionally in the interests of those taxpayers. If the Departments activities remain problematic just blaming the Minister isn't on as far as this taxpayer is concerned.

two of the biggest "successes" of the ADF were using bypassed processes on ministerial influence - against advice.  both those programs are already biting us on the arse due to being imposed at speed. (C17 being the classic feel good for biggles set, but when you drill into it, there's a nightmare in the wings).  ditto for fat ships, ditto for abrams.

the white paper went back to the crown 5-6 times, becuase it didn't suit some.

this govt is probably worse than the last - they're not interested in hearing any view of the world that doesn't subscribe to their view - any public servant (less so for unifornms) that doesn't conform to the way that they think has a CLM already made up in the top draw.

unfort, frank robust input by a PS that can offer unpolluted counsel doesn't exist.  esp in the current climate.  an example of this is the education portfolio where schools are getting buildings that they don't need just so that the govt can carry a cheerleading event for stimulating the economy.  a $3m dollar hall (worse case) buys a lot of teching time, buys a lot of electronic facilities, buys books, buys equipment etc....  esp when the school has expressly stated that they don't need another hall.

in the case of defence, C-17's were impressed too rapidly, and so were the fat ships - both are embarassing when you know what was not implemented as part of what would have been picked  up by the operators and normal review process.  Can the review times be improved - of course, everyone I know of in defence and industry wants reform, but accerated programs that have ministerial intervention and bypass critical steps are a recipe in taxpayer grief - and we've got a few coming in 10-12 years time.  At the point, a Lib govt will be happily excoriating their predecessors about how C17's, subs, AWD, Tanks, JSF were stuffed by ministerial processes that sidestepped the approp checks

 
 
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neutralizer       6/29/2009 6:29:36 AM
In the case of networking PzH2000 I'd suggest there aren't any easy targets to blame, apart from the shopping queue approach to defence procurement, where if you take a step back you lose your place and bag of gold.
 
The problem here is the scheduling of interdependent projects and being unable to specify key requirements.  In this case the AFATDS decision was made after RFTs, etc were issued for guns.  This meant the requirements for the data interface between guns and BCP couldn't be specified in any meaningful way, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was no adequate budget provision to deal with it.  The low cost solution would be to put an AFATDS terminal of some sort in each gun and manually re-key data between the gun's system and AFATDS.  Not quite the sort of 'network centric' that Russll Offices seems to aspire to.  The second cheapest needs luck (and I'd assess it at about p=0.15), that the Germans had the wit to use MLRS type i/o for the outwards facing interface of the gun computer.  This being the case UK has recently accepted a new box, that I assume supports VMF message sytax, to provide the interface onboard MLRS and COBRA which should do the job with a new set of message conversion rules.
 
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Volkodav       6/29/2009 7:52:41 AM
Saw a story suggesting that not only was the US looking at arming the AC-27 with an M-777 155mm howitzer but that it would be a good fit for Australia instead of the SPG's!!!!
 
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StevoJH       6/29/2009 10:59:27 AM

Saw a story suggesting that not only was the US looking at arming the AC-27 with an M-777 155mm howitzer but that it would be a good fit for Australia instead of the SPG's!!!!

Oh well, if it fires through the cargo ramp the aircraft might go faster. On the other hand, the recoil could send it through the roof of the aircraft.
 
Sounds like fun.
 
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Volkodav       6/30/2009 5:14:26 AM



Saw a story suggesting that not only was the US looking at arming the AC-27 with an M-777 155mm howitzer but that it would be a good fit for Australia instead of the SPG's!!!!





Oh well, if it fires through the cargo ramp the aircraft might go faster. On the other hand, the recoil could send it through the roof of the aircraft.

 

Sounds like fun.



Same story just popped up in DIAR, I checked the date to ensure it wasn't April 1, but it appears genuine!
 
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BLUIE006    BAE's Lightweight Howitzer Wins $118M in Further Orders   7/10/2009 11:50:17 PM

 

 

The total of 63 howitzers in the new orders comes shortly after the company forecast up to 150 additional orders by the end of 2009. Among potential purchasers are Australia, which is asking for 35 systems but could eventually procure up to 57, Denmark, India, Oman and Thailand. An order from Australia is anticipated before the end of the year, according to the company.

Source: Mahon, T, 28 May 2009  BAE's Lightweight Howitzer Wins $118M in Further (Defence News)

 
 
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