Not until or unless you bought the FA-2s (British 1989 or )AV-8s (US same year) I'd go British at that time with the Blue Fox radar. It was wired for SEA EAGLE from the start. The US version with AN/APG 65 radar isn't wired for HARPOON until 1993.

 

Does anyone know how much it would have cost to modernise Sydney to the same specs as Melbourne? I looks on the RAN site but it doesn't give any cost figures for either ship.

Means that 8 Skyhawk -8 whatever small fighters (Sea Vixens) -4  Tracker and 4 helos is possible off a centaur provided the elevators fit.. 

Sea Vixen shouldn't be a problem since the HMS Centaur and HMS Hermes operated Sea Vixen anyway.

I read a book about Melbourne a while back (don't remember what it was called now) that basically said that by the time she was decommissioned the only thing holding her together was the paint due to the amount of rust she had (most likely an exaggeration). So basically you would need to replace both ships by the early 1980's at the latest, which means the options are the Invincible class, Princip de Asturias or Garibaldi.

Her captains kept smashing up destroyers. Sooner or later something was going to break.

Good point, you have to admit that it was the destroyers fault in both cases though.

 

Of the three classes personally i'd choose either Invincible or Princip de Asturias, since they are both faster, and can carry more aircraft. Of those two I personally prefer the Invincible class, however if wiki is to be believed, the Spanish option has a smaller crew which is a definite advantage.

Invincible and PdA both operated much larger airgroups then Garibaldi though, which is the biggest advantage. If you leave out the missile systems from Invincible or get Tartar instead of Sea Dart, how much would those options change the price?

 

The A4G's with 4 x Sidewinder and 2 x 20mm cannon  should be enough for fleet defense until the carriers are replaced. With an Australian purchase of Sea Harriers would either integration of Sparrow or an earlier FA.2 upgrade have been possible since BVR missiles on aircraft become more common by the 1980's?

Not until or unless you bought the FA-2s (British 1989 or )AV-8s (US same year) I'd go British at that time with the Blue Fox radar. It was wired for SEA EAGLE from the start. The US version with AN/APG 65 radar isn't wired for HARPOON until 1993.

The Darings can be canceled fairly easily before about 1954 due to the delays in their construction (ships were launched 1952, 1954, 1956), however in 1954 neither Tartar or Sea Slug are available anyway, so the government had no reason to cancel the ships. However you come the 1960's it would probably be possible to place the in reserve with the ships rotating through the role of fleet training ship (Duchess and Vampire both carried out this role during their career, as did the converted RO-RO HMAS Jervis Bay).

Hadn't thought about that. You could lay up those ships if you dismounted the electronics and weather sheltered them. Maybe you don't have to give back. Maybe just institute a beefed up reserve sailor program? What do you trade in for it though? The TALOS battery? Or forgo some of the THINDERBIRDS and HAWKS?

From hindsight drop the Talos battery since it would be obsolete before Hawk or an upgraded thunderbird and was out of US service by 1979.

 To aim for as close to the historical fleet as possible there would be 12 escorts and 6 Submarines (Oberons). Sydney was in commission as a Troop transport throughout the 1960's so lets consider the crew costs in that as already paid. There were more then twice as many S-2's and A-4's then Melbourne carried at any one time, however there were only enough Sea Kings for one air group so more of those would need purchasing.

Buy WASPS to add to your initial WESSEX buy. Use the WASPS on the Leanders and move those WESSEXs to the carriers.n Two Counties, three Perths and four Rivers + the three laid up Darings =12 escorts with 6 more helos than you had. 

There was 27 Wessex's purchased, those were specifically purchased for Melbourne and might not fit on a Leander anyway, so you would have to buy something like Wasp.

 

 How about 8 Leander class (whether narrow or broad beam depends on when ordered) and 4 Modified Tartar counties.

MONEY! The Terrier/Tartar Counties would cost twice what an Adams cost! I like the idea of more Leanders though: might trade in a Perth for two.

If you have Tartar/Terrier Counties do you need to buy the Adams class in the first place? If you can buy two leanders for an Adams and two Adams for a county, purchase 3 Counties and 6 Leanders, with the three Darings in reserve with one operational at a time as Training ships. Saves the RN from purchasing Jervis Bay as well.

 The Canberra's replaced Avro Lincons in the RAAF starting from 1955 with 58 delivered serving in 3 squadrons. The F111's while ordered in 1963 didn't enter service until 1973. The Mirage III or Canberra buy would have been the RAAF program effected by Sydney being modernised since the modernisation would probably take place either from 1955 when Melbourne was commissioned or from 1963 when it was decided to renew Melbournes fix wing aircraft complement (in 1959 it was announced she would only operate helicopters after the current fixed wing aircraft were retired).

Well that poses the problem AGG correctly brought up when he said my toming was off.  After 1965 you can afford both, but not before. We just have to buy 68 LANSEN in 1958 and 3 KC-135s to go with them, don't we? 

Operate them through until the mid 1970's and the RAAF could end up with F-15's or F16's rather then Mirages followed by F/A-18's.

 

Navy to navy discussions in 1944 for the RAN to provide crews for a 1942 type light fleet carrier, two cruisers and a number of destroyers that were nearing completion in the UK, that the RN had insufficient crews for and the RN would transfer the ships to the RAN at NO cost!

 

 

Later on discussions changed to cover two carriers instead of one and RAAF personnel were expected to transfer to the AN FAA.

 Interesting. Sounds like that Commonwealth postwar navy the British tried to sell.

The plan fell over because the government required a series inquiries which saw the war end before a decision was made and as there was no pressing tactical requirement to get the ships to see to support the RN the no cost transfer deal was off the table.

Missed opportunity.. 

The post war deal was two for the price of one but the RAN was very concerned that the CVL's would not be able to operate "modern aircraft" but were reassured by the RN that they would be able to operate as strike carriers well into the 50's and would beable to operate all planned FAA aircraft (the Seavixen having been put on hold at this time). The RAN had been looking at the 1943 type CVL's as an alternative if the RN had not provided this reassurance.

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The RN saw a long term future for the light fleets as the true replacement for the cruiser and intended to use them in a variety of roles determined by embarked air group, i.e. strike, trade protection, commando. The Radical Review of 1957 killed these plans as well as any long term benefit the RAN could have gained from continued RN support for the type, i.e. improved aircraft designed to operate from small carriers.

And so now its Spain who helps you with the LPHs? Somebody goofed here. 

The RAN's Darings took so long to build because the builders were striving for technical excellence, not efficiency, there were funding issues delayng completion and numerous other projects were given priority, i.e. frigate conversions.

 

Why does that sound like LCS to me?