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Subject: Another f35 article...with a hint of truth
beepa    8/28/2008 2:21:45 PM
From f16.net F-35 Lightning II News Department of Spendthrift Defence August 28, 2008 (by Eric L. Palmer) - The senior Australian Defence leadership is embarking on a dangerous gamble with taxpayer?s money. This compulsive gambling habit will need a strong intervention by Parliament. The F-35 returns to flight this afternoon at NAS Fort Worth, Lockheed-Martin facility on December 7th, 2007. Defence and corporate interests are working hand in hand to see that Australia commits to the largest defence purchase in history: The Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). The problems with this venture are many. First Australia, Defence White Paper or no, can?t cobble together a roadmap for the long term Defence of the Australian public. There is so much poor input into this process that a path for the security of Australia won?t be worth the paper it is written on. Second, sales people get paid to sell stuff. This means that that given the record of management by Defence on big dollar, high profile weapons purchases which is poor, going for yet more high risk, high dollar weapons systems is asking for more trouble. A slick sales effort and it?s off to the races with the taxpayer?s money and little or no solid research to stand on for justification of the purchase. Third, in the case of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), it isn?t ready to be sold any time soon. Why? An intelligent buying decision can hardly be made for some years until enough test hours are flown and the development of the aircraft has real tangible qualities one can point to in a fighter aircraft. Until a significant amount of maturity shows up in the F-35 program, any premature buying decision is no different than putting billions of dollars of the taxpayers money down on the roulette wheel and hoping for the best. The lack of long range aircraft buying strategy by Defence is alarming. For example, Defence is basing the defence of the nation around an aircraft, the F-35, that has little substance. Years ago, Defence made the high risk decision to cut off a valid competition composed of a variety of proven aircraft in favor of the then vaporware F-35. This decision robbed the taxpayer of value. How? This decision put the RAAF at risk. By going with what was really an unknown delivery date to anyone who knows the gestation period of new aircraft types, the RAAF would flying an aged aircraft well beyond it?s useful life: The legacy F-18 Hornet. Today, Defence is still wasting billions keeping the old F-18 around when it could have been long replaced. For example: The F-18 was never meant to be refurbished. It was meant to be flown a set amount of hours and thrown into the trash. Yet Defence has wasted almost a billion dollars trying to replace the center fuselage area of the aircraft called the center barrel. This repair is called CBR. CBR won?t return much value on the dollar. Even the U.S. Navy, who discovered CBR in a one-off event to fix a then new F-18 that got wrecked, doesn?t see enough value in the CBR process to continue it. And at this time only the U.S. Navy has the resources needed to sustain such an effort. CBR is an expensive and slow set of tasks. Canada, who also flies old F-18?s is shying away from CBR too. Not long after the ink was dry on Australia?s deal to start CBR on it?s aging F-18s, Defence had to backpedal and admit that they didn?t know how to properly manage a CBR process. Mistakes on making the old F-18 combat worthy don?t stop there. Some years ago there was the goof up of getting the right electronic defensive kit for the aircraft. After wasting money on one poorly researched vendor, Defence had to waste more money by switching vendors after the first one failed to deliver a working product . In the end the F-18 got it?s electronic defensive gear, but what does the taxpayer get in return? Money thrown into an airframe that could have been replaced long ago. Next is the F-18 Super Hornet debacle. While the Super Hornet may be good for the U.S. Navy based solely on the fact that it is the only U.S. carrier fighter in production and has a new car smell, it makes a poor fit for Australia. Even if one ignores the poor justification for getting the aircraft: A fib that the F-111 was at risk of falling apart based on a faulty fatigue test. One has to also consider other things about the Super Hornet purchase. It was done in a hurry based on little solid threat analysis and was bought on the premise of wasting supplemental taxpayer money outside of the normal Defence budget. This impulse buy, not unlike the kind for those with little restraint or children who see something tasty at the checkout counter, means that Defence has no solid grasp of how to manage a long range lifecycle plan for the kinds of combat aircraft needed to defend the nation. In the case of Australia?s involvement in the F-35 project, the amount of the hype and blind faith Defence and industry heap on the unaware t
 
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Aussiegunneragain    I'm an expert....   8/29/2008 8:46:22 AM
If you want to believe that crap then go for your life - but I suggest that you graze through some of his other nonsense on other forums and pause a bit before considering him an expert.  (The bit about how he is a pilot will crack you up when you discover what kind of "pilot" he is)
 
... because I've got an expired ticket to fly one of these;
 
Skyfox CA-25N Gazelle aircraft picture

and a current ticket to fly in one of these in just over a week;
 
 
so you all should shut up and listen to me .
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain       8/29/2008 8:55:49 AM

 

The thing I find amusing about journalists like this is that they write copious amounts of copy denigrating particular aircraft/platforms and write in a style as if they are the only folk who know the real truth and that the readers are nothing more than little kids, yet they don't once back up their position/argument with a valid option of their own.

 So the F-35 is a low flying, range limited jet without any decent NCW kit. Check.
 

The thing I find amusing is that people are still calling the F-35 "range limited" when it has a combat radius on internal fuel of 600nm. How much is it going to be with external tanks punched off prior to combat ... 750 or 800nm? That is as good as the F-22 that this goose suggesting that we should buy. The wanker should learn to read.
 
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gf0012-aust       8/29/2008 8:58:38 AM

If you want to believe that crap then go for your life - but I suggest that you graze through some of his other nonsense on other forums and pause a bit before considering him an expert.  (The bit about how he is a pilot will crack you up when you discover what kind of "pilot" he is)
 

... because I've got an expired ticket to fly one of these;

and a current ticket to fly in one of these in just over a week;

so you all should shut up and listen to me .


which is substantially more than EP, he's a pilot in a "virtual airline company".....  (ie, sim jock).
 
 
 
 
 
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Wicked Chinchilla       8/29/2008 9:30:42 AM
ROFL!
 
Sim-Jock?  That, is, hilarious.  A pilot indeed
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       8/29/2008 11:13:40 AM




Eric Palmer?  ROFLMAO.



 



Maybe you should google the other rubbish he's written on the RAAF and the F-22, the Su-27 and its threat to Australia, or even just wander over to T5C and see how long he lasted in there.






 



Unmitigated wanker - one of the Kopp club.



 



The only one on F16.net that actually has a clue as to what he talks about is Dwightlooie (and the smattering of real F-22 pilots who invariably have given up in disgust)









Yeah sure, I suppose your mate darth is as clueless as you say? Its so refreshing to pop in here and see all the self proclaimed experts. Must be why there are so many people lining up to post on here.


Hey champ nice to see an opposing view. 
 
However. Who has the more believable information in relation to the F-35 aircraft?
 
The Australian DoD who have staff embedded within the Joint Strike Fighter project office?
 
Or Eric Palmer, a former (according to him) USAF "photographer" whatever that means and a current "IT puke" for a "major National Australian Company"?
  
In my humble opinion, he is every bit as full of sh*t as those wankers at APA and those such as you who appear to "believe" them. 
 
Apparently the F-35 having multiple iterations (known as Blocks) is a problem but every OTHER aircraft (including the F-16) isn't?
 
 
You could spend all day picking this sh*t to pieces but if you want to believe there's a hint of truth in this article OTHER than the fact that Lockheed is manufacturing the F-35 and Australia is buying it. 
 
Well. You're a knob.

 
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DropBear    Volkodav   8/29/2008 11:24:56 AM
 

(replacements for the F-4E in 76SQN, the RF-4E and F-4G in 79SQN and the ex RAN FAA Skyhawks in 2SQN)

 
What did you think of my hypothetical transfer of FAA A-4's to the RAAF as well as the retention of the F-4E's instead of disbanding 76Sqn, which could have been done in the mid 70's, and the reestablishment of 79Sqn with RF-4 and weasels which would have occured instead of buying surplus F-111A's and recc pods.
 
What numbers of Phantom are you talking here? the 24 leased, plus an additional purchase to fill these said sqn's?
 
Why split the three variants of Phantom into separate sqn's? Were you thinking of amalgamating 76 and 79 into the existing SRG of the day or keeping them TFW?
 
Where would you have the Winjeels/Macchis go? Perhaps Winnies to a future 2FTS arrangement and Macchis to an expanded OCU?
 
What value would you have in placing Scooters in 2SQN? What of the Cranberries? Would Scooters be air defence with their Nine Limas or were you thinking bomb trucking or CAS? Maybe a form of RESCORT perhaps?
 
Curious and very very interested.
 
 
 
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Volkodav       8/30/2008 8:25:28 AM

 

(replacements for the F-4E in 76SQN, the RF-4E and F-4G in 79SQN and the ex RAN FAA Skyhawks in 2SQN)



 

What did you think of my hypothetical transfer of FAA A-4's to the RAAF as well as the retention of the F-4E's instead of disbanding 76Sqn, which could have been done in the mid 70's, and the reestablishment of 79Sqn with RF-4 and weasels which would have occured instead of buying surplus F-111A's and recc pods.
 

What numbers of Phantom are you talking here? the 24 leased, plus an additional purchase to fill these said sqn's?

 

Why split the three variants of Phantom into separate sqn's? Were you thinking of amalgamating 76 and 79 into the existing SRG of the day or keeping them TFW?

 

Where would you have the Winjeels/Macchis go? Perhaps Winnies to a future 2FTS arrangement and Macchis to an expanded OCU?

 

What value would you have in placing Scooters in 2SQN? What of the Cranberries? Would Scooters be air defence with their Nine Limas or were you thinking bomb trucking or CAS? Maybe a form of RESCORT perhaps?

 

Curious and very very interested.

 

 


Among the reasons given for not keeping the Phantoms, although they would be a valuable addition to the RAAF, was that the personnel and units operating them were earmarked to bring the F-111 into service meaning a Mirage squadron would have to be disbanded to free up the resourses need for them which was seen to be an unacceptable reduction of our fighter force.  Not long after this 76 Sqn was disbanded, in part to extend the life of the Mirage fleet through proving a larger pool of non operational airframes to spread out the remaining fatigue life.
2+2= transfer 16 of the remaining 23 leased Phantoms to 76 Sqn.
 
79 Sqn has been reformed on a number of occassions for various reasons, to provide airdefence in Thailand during Vietnam with Sabres, then to maintain a presence at Butterworth with Mirages after 3 & 75 Sqn were withdrawn to Australia to re-equip with F/A-18's.  76 Sqn would need support for operational conversion and there was an outstanding requirement for tactically survivable specialised Reccon asset in lieu of the cancelled RF-111.  Vietnam and the Arab Israeli wars had also shown the need for SEAD.  All of this would be too much for one Sqn to undertake so reforming 79 Sqn to operate an OCU with 6 F-4E and two specialist flights, one with 4 to 6 RF-4E and one with 4-6 F-4G. 
 
This would provide a total Phantom force of 30 to 34.
 
As for the Scooters, they provided a very useful fleet support capability that we ended up contracting out to the RNZAF after selling our remaining aircraft to them.  My thought was that instead of selling the A-4's we transfer them to 2 Sqn (which was disbanded in 1982) and continue to operate them in fleet support (training role) as well as for CAS training for the Army. i.e. some the roles currently undertaken by the Hawk LIFT's and previously by the Macchi's.  They would eventually end up developing Fast FAC tactics aswell.
 
The macchi's were relaced in the training role by the PC-9 and would be retired.  Eventually someone would realise that we actually need a LIFT which would lead to an earlier Hawk purchase or perhaps even a new lease of life for the Scooters (plus surplus US airframes) as they are replaced in 2 Sqn with Bugs after their successful developmnt of Fast FAC tactics.
 
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