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Subject: LAND 17 gets weird
Aussie Diggermark 2    7/21/2008 9:29:32 AM
WASHINGTON --- The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Australia of M777A2 155mm Light-Weight Howitzers as well as associated equipment and services.

The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $248 million.

The Government of Australia has requested a possible sale of 57 M777A2 155mm Light-Weight Howitzers, 57 AN/VRC-91F Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio Systems (SINCGARS), integration, spare and repair parts, support and test equipment, publications and technical documentation, maintenance, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $248 million.

Australia is one of our most important allies in the Western Pacific. The strategic location of this political and economic power contributes significantly to ensuring peace and economic stability in the region.

Australia?s efforts in peacekeeping and humanitarian operations in Iraq and in Afghanistan have had a significant impact on regional political and economic stability and have served U.S. national security interests. This proposed sale is consistent with those objectives and facilitates burden-sharing with our allies.

This proposed sale would greatly contribute to Australia?s military capability by making it a more sustainable coalition force to support the Global War on Terror. Australia will use these new M777A2 155mm Howitzers to protect its deployed troops, and give them the ability to operate in hazardous conditions. Australia currently operates the 100mm [actually 105mm?Ed.] Hamel Howitzer and the 155mm M198 Howitzer and will have no difficulty absorbing these howitzers into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractors will be: BAE Land Systems in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and ITT in Fort Wayne, Indiana. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

The proposed sale requires engineering technical support for approximately two U.S. government representatives and five contractor representatives for one year.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.

-ends-

Courtesy: ww*.dsca.mil

57x? That number was never mentioned in ANY of the LAND 17 RFT documents...

I'm wondering whether the SPG is now a goner if so many M777A2's are getting ordered, or if Government is actually getting serious about replacing Army's artillery capability with a reasonable number of pieces?

I'm betting on the former, but one never knows...
 
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Enterpriser    Oh Dear.....   7/21/2008 11:08:07 AM

A cold shiver just went down my spine. . . .

 
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Kevin Pork       7/21/2008 7:49:18 PM
Its better than I expected from this Govt, I was expecting 20 or so megaphones and the order to shout "bang" loudly.
 
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hairy man       7/21/2008 8:20:37 PM
57.    How would they come to that figure?    Obviously some will be in reserve, but how many groups of how many guns will we have in use?
 
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hairy man       7/21/2008 8:26:17 PM
Batteries, not groups.
 
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Volkodav       7/22/2008 6:12:27 AM
Are we currently running 6 or 8 guns per battery?
 
Doing the maths and working on the assumption that we need to provide 1 battery for each of our soon to be 7 regular battalions with 6 guns per battery we need 42 guns plus and over head for training, trials and reserve.
 
On the other hand if we have 8 guns per battery we would need 56 for our planned infantry force which would leave nothing for the required training, trials and reserve overhead. 
 
This may suggest that the plan is for 5 batteries with 8 guns, 40 guns, to support our light infantry and motor infantry battalions as well as the over head with the SPG buy going ahead or possibly being delayed to coincide with Land 400, providing the opportunity to buy Donar instead of PzH2000 or K9.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       7/22/2008 8:31:00 AM
If the source can't get the calibre of our current guns right then I'm going to take it at a grain of salt on the 57 gun figure.
 
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Volkodav       7/22/2008 9:00:08 AM

If the source can't get the calibre of our current guns right then I'm going to take it at a grain of salt on the 57 gun figure.


The request was made to congress and was reported in Janes Defence Weekly and Defence Iindustry DAily aswell as AD's source.  The request included options so 57 is the total we may buy not a firm figure of what we will order.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       7/22/2008 9:23:51 AM



If the source can't get the calibre of our current guns right then I'm going to take it at a grain of salt on the 57 gun figure.



The request was made to congress and was reported in Janes Defence Weekly and Defence Iindustry DAily aswell as AD's source.  The request included options so 57 is the total we may buy not a firm figure of what we will order.
Fair enough.

 
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Enterpriser       7/22/2008 9:50:21 AM







If the source can't get the calibre of our current guns right then I'm going to take it at a grain of salt on the 57 gun figure.








The request was made to congress and was reported in Janes Defence Weekly and Defence Iindustry DAily aswell as AD's source.  The request included options so 57 is the total we may buy not a firm figure of what we will order.


Fair enough.





I know what you mean though..... 100mm?
 
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Aussiegunneragain    DA   7/22/2008 10:30:58 AM





If the source can't get the calibre of our current guns right then I'm going to take it at a grain of salt on the 57 gun figure.









The request was made to congress and was reported in Janes Defence Weekly and Defence Iindustry DAily aswell as AD's source.  The request included options so 57 is the total we may buy not a firm figure of what we will order.




Fair enough.


I know what you mean though..... 100mm?

Yeah, I reckon they must think we are operating French navel guns.
 
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Enterpriser       7/22/2008 11:15:31 AM











If the source can't get the calibre of our current guns right then I'm going to take it at a grain of salt on the 57 gun figure.




















The request was made to congress and was reported in Janes Defence Weekly and Defence Iindustry DAily aswell as AD's source.  The request included options so 57 is the total we may buy not a firm figure of what we will order.










Fair enough.






I know what you mean though..... 100mm?




Yeah, I reckon they must think we are operating French navel guns.


Damn, I was going to say that .....(it was the only time I could recall coming across a 100mm weapon at the time)
 
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Volkodav    Indiginous SPG option for Land 17   7/23/2008 7:39:12 AM
Yeramba self propelled 25pdr

The prototype Yeramba in 1949
Type Self-propelled artillery
Place of origin Flag of Australia Australia
Specifications
Weight 28.5 tonnes
Length 5.64 m
Width 2.75 m
Height 2.1 m
Crew 6 (Commander, Driver, and 4 gun crew)

Armor 38 mm
Primary
armament
QF 25 pdr (87.6 mm) Mk II
Secondary
armament
Two 0.303 (7.7 mm) Bren LMG
Engine Twin GM 6-71 diesel
375 hp (280 kW)
Power/weight 13 hp/tonne
Suspension Vertical Volute Spring
Operational
range
200 km
Speed 40 km/h
 
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doggtag       7/23/2008 9:17:59 AM





I know what you mean though..... 100mm?






Yeah, I reckon they must think we are operating French navel guns.






Damn, I was going to say that .....(it was the only time I could recall coming across a 100mm weapon at the time)

What? No mention of using the BMP-3's 2A70 gun (the one what launches 9M117 missiles) ?
They also have a few towed guns of 100mm, notably the big (looooong) T-12.
A bit outdated though.

On your Yeramba there: nice kit, kind of Sexton-ish.
But Sherman-type chassis are way old.
Maybe one of those stretched M113s all cut up and pimped out artillery style, with a Hamel thrown in there instead of a 25-pdr, make yer Yeramba a bit more modern.
For that matter, just such a hull should fit your M777 quite nicely.
Maybe use that aft pedestal design the Piranhas trialled years ago (had an autoloader ability), so you can shoot-n-scoot as needed.
Plus, you got those tracks what can go where wheels can't...
You just won't get that direct-fire-haymaker ability if you do it off a rear pedestal mount instead of hull-mounting it.
(but then again, what do you really want/need? A modern-day StuG, or a versatile SP artillery gun?)
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       7/23/2008 10:27:46 AM

Are we currently running 6 or 8 guns per battery?

 

Doing the maths and working on the assumption that we need to provide 1 battery for each of our soon to be 7 regular battalions with 6 guns per battery we need 42 guns plus and over head for training, trials and reserve.

 

On the other hand if we have 8 guns per battery we would need 56 for our planned infantry force which would leave nothing for the required training, trials and reserve overhead. 

 

This may suggest that the plan is for 5 batteries with 8 guns, 40 guns, to support our light infantry and motor infantry battalions as well as the over head with the SPG buy going ahead or possibly being delayed to coincide with Land 400, providing the opportunity to buy Donar instead of PzH2000 or K9.

Sorry about the multiple entries guys, the software of this site. What can I say?
 
We operate 6x gun batteries and have done so for a long time. 
 
I cannot explain where that number "57" came from, however this number will allow us to provide 3x batteries for 3 Brigade, (probably) 3x batteries for 7 brigade AND 2x for 1 Brigade, which would equate to 48x guns and then leave enough for a full 6x gun battery for 53 Independent Battery at the School of Artillery and 3x guns for the trade training school (where RAEME personel are taught how to maintain the guns).
 
I would suggest therefore that no SPG is a distinct possibility IF this order is placed. 
 
Once again, the existing reserve units will NOT get a replacement for their 105mm guns. They WILL only be using 81mm mortars in future years...

 
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Volkodav       7/24/2008 5:18:27 AM
Once again, the existing reserve units will NOT get a replacement for their 105mm guns. They WILL only be using 81mm mortars in future years...
 
By reserve I meant a number of guns put aside as an attrition reserve not that they will or should be issued to reserve units
 
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