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Subject: US 'planned to test nerve gas on diggers'
Aussiegunneragain    7/5/2008 5:24:29 AM
Top secret US military plans to test deadly nerve gas by dropping it on soldiers in a remote Queensland rainforest during the Cold War have been uncovered in Australian Government archives.

Newly declassified Australian Defence Department and Prime Minister?s office files show that the United States was strongly pushing the Government for tests on Australian soil of two of the most deadly chemical weapons ever developed, VX and GB ? better known as Sarin ? nerve gas.

The plan, which is disclosed for the first time on tomorrow?s SUNDAY program on Nine, called for 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons ? with all but a handful of the soldiers to be kept in the dark about the "full details" of the tests.

A former senior official with then Prime Minister Harold Holt, Mr Peter Bailey, tells the program that as far as he knows the tests never went ahead but the planning was very advanced.

He admitted the whole operation was to be kept secret because use of such weapons was almost certainly illegal under international law at the time.

"The idea that we could actually? that the Australians could countenance such an activity is ?unacceptable," University of NSW toxicologist Professor Chris Winder said.

He says even a fraction of a drop of either chemical on exposed skin could have been fatal and Cold War fears that communist Chinese or Russian attackers might have used such weapons in a third world war "doesn?t justify it now and I don?t think it justified it then".

The files show that in July 1962 the then-US defence secretary Robert McNamara wrote in secret to the Australian Defence Department suggesting joint testing of chemical weapons "on a classified basis without a public release by either country".

In early 1963 a survey team of Australian and US scientists reviewed sites in Australia for chemical warfare tests, suggesting the remote Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland as one such location.

The request caused consternation in Canberra, with senior Defence bureaucrats clearly opposed to the use of nerve gas, but, as former senior Prime Ministerial policy advisor Peter Bailey recalls: "I heard that many times in Cabinet meetings that if they weren?t pretty good and pretty faithful to the Americans we would be dumped.

"We had already been dumped with the British east of Suez pullout so ministers were pretty aware this was our one main support and the red peril thing was still in people?s minds."

In October 1964 the Americans pushed the request again, this time insisting that the public should be fed a "cover story" to conceal the real nature of the tests: the documents show the public was to be told the tests were to test equipment or land reclamation in a jungle environment.

Low-flying military aircraft and spraying was to be explained away with the false claim that low-risk herbicides and insecticides were to be used in the testing but the cover stories were clearly untrue ? he real chemicals to be used were two of the most deadly man-made substances, VX and GB nerve gas.

Former Democrat Senator Lyn Allison, who became aware of the existence of references to secret chemical weapons tests in Australia during her support of sick former veterans of the Maralinga nuclear bomb tests, told SUNDAY that her own attempts to get the full story on what went on with proposed testing were rebuffed several years ago.

She said Government files on the issue were still classified even now and the revelations in the new documents obtained by SUNDAY underlined the need for the Defence Department to finally disclose all that went on during the Cold War.

"To understand that Australia was still prepared to consider this proposal because of its relationship with the US I think needs proper examination," Senator Allison told the program.

"So all those documents should be released, there shouldn?t be any pussy footing around ? t?s time for us to know what went on."

SUNDAY?s expose of Australia?s secret planning for chemical warfare airs at 7.30am Sunday on Nine.

news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=287260
 
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PlatypusMaximus       7/5/2008 9:32:36 AM
 So what?...You did too.

 
Quote    Reply

the British Lion       7/5/2008 12:40:37 PM
Blimey... I see a Hollywood movie in the making here, updated for a modern audience of course..
 
An evil Republican President Bush lookalike arranges to test the effects of certain types of radiation on British troops in the Highlands of Scotland. Except a plucky liberal Journalist (Kate Blanchett maybe?) finds out about it, and it's up to her and an ex CIA agent (who's seen the light) to expose this to the world!
 
Excuse me, I gotta write this down...
 
B.L.

 
Quote    Reply

swhitebull       7/5/2008 12:44:44 PM

Blimey... I see a Hollywood movie in the making here, updated for a modern audience of course..

 

An evil Republican President Bush lookalike arranges to test the effects of certain types of radiation on British troops in the Highlands of Scotland. Except a plucky liberal Journalist (Kate Blanchett maybe?) finds out about it, and it's up to her and an ex CIA agent (who's seen the light) to expose this to the world!


 

Excuse me, I gotta write this down...

 

B.L.





With typical Hollywood ingenuity and creativeness, they can call it  "Z the Unknown"  and don't credit the original movie from 1956
 
swhitebull
 
Quote    Reply

the British Lion       7/5/2008 2:08:26 PM




Blimey... I see a Hollywood movie in the making here, updated for a modern audience of course..



 



An evil Republican President Bush lookalike arranges to test the effects of certain types of radiation on British troops in the Highlands of Scotland. Except a plucky liberal Journalist (Kate Blanchett maybe?) finds out about it, and it's up to her and an ex CIA agent (who's seen the light) to expose this to the world!






 



Excuse me, I gotta write this down...



 



B.L.













With typical Hollywood ingenuity and creativeness, they can call it  "Z the Unknown"  and don't credit the original movie from 1956


 

swhitebull



Meh, everyone knows Hollywood hasn't really made a new movie since the 1970's.
 
B.L. 
 
Quote    Reply

Aussiegunneragain    BL   7/5/2008 9:31:17 PM

Blimey... I see a Hollywood movie in the making here, updated for a modern audience of course..

 

An evil Republican President Bush lookalike arranges to test the effects of certain types of radiation on British troops in the Highlands of Scotland. Except a plucky liberal Journalist (Kate Blanchett maybe?) finds out about it, and it's up to her and an ex CIA agent (who's seen the light) to expose this to the world!


 

Excuse me, I gotta write this down...

 

B.L.





link style="border-right: 1px solid; border-top: 1px solid; border-left: 1px solid; border-bottom: 1px solid" height="123" src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:FAWNwV6wEUnXPM link width="96" alt="" />
Here's an obvious choice to play Bush... ;-).
 
Heres the link to the report.
 
video.msn.com/?mkt=en-au&brand=ninemsn&tab=m165&mediaid=196945&from=39&vid=0DF9C193-4BDE-46AE-936C-A24AFD072B6A&playlist=videoByTag:mk:en-AU:vs:0:tag:aunews_ausunday:ns:MSNVideo_Top_Cat:ps:10:sd:-1:ind:1:ff:8A
 

 
 
Quote    Reply

Aussiegunneragain    BL   7/5/2008 9:36:05 PM
link title="http://www.solarnavigator.net/animal_kingdom/mammals/chimpanzee.htm" height="123" alt="http://www.solarnavigator.net/animal_kingdom/mammals/chimpanzee.htm" src="http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:FAWNwV6wEUkJ::www.solarnavigator.net/animal_kingdom/animal_images/Chimpanzee_thinking_poster.jpg" width="96" align="center" vspace="4" border="1" />
 
Bloody software. Here's the Bush actor.
 
Quote    Reply

Aussiegunneragain    BL   7/5/2008 9:38:17 PM

Blah, forget it. Ferkin software won't work properly.

 

 

 
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Kevin Pork       7/5/2008 11:12:25 PM
Not a bad beat up, another headline for that story could be - "US asked to test chemical weapons on Aust troops, were told no and left it at that".
 
If you are going to make a modern movie on it, work in an abu ghraib reference, the left love them.
 
However, if you want it to make money, try making one that backs the troops - so far the list of "evil US in Iraq" movies have all bombed at the box office.
 
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain       7/5/2008 11:35:48 PM

Not a bad beat up, another headline for that story could be - "US asked to test chemical weapons on Aust troops, were told no and left it at that".

If you are going to make a modern movie on it, work in an abu ghraib reference, the left love them.

However, if you want it to make money, try making one that backs the troops - so far the list of "evil US in Iraq" movies have all bombed at the box office.  


Its a pretty interesting and horrific insight into the mindset of the time though, that leaders in both countries would even countanance subjecting their own/allied troops to this for experimentation. It really goes beyond the nuclear tests at Maralinga, Bikini Atoll etc, because the effects of radiation weren't fully known during those tests but there has never been any question about the effects of nerve gas. If there was evidence that these sort of attitudes persisted today it would make you think twice about joining up.
 
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neutralizer       7/6/2008 2:19:31 AM
The behaviour of nerve agents in tropical conditions was an issue and I'd no doubt that the US would have been interested in doing a trial in NQ.  But before they could approach Canberra they'd have wanted to have a fairly clear idea of what they (the US) wanted to do.  In media speak this is 'planning'.
 
However, I doubt that the intention was to test lethal nerve agents on troops in field conditions.  I don't think this was done anywhere, as I understand it trials in field conditions always used animals as subjects.  Field trials of psychotropic agents did take place (eg in UK), but trials of lethal agents in so far as they occurred were in laboratories with antidotes immediately to hand and very very limited exposure.  Field trials are just too uncontrollable.  I happily recall doing the NBC Instructors cse which involved a drop of Mustard agent on everyones' wrist and imediately going into decontam procedures, which do work and I don't even have a scar.  My father said it was standard training for everyone in WW2.  Nerve agent is a very different matter.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       7/6/2008 4:19:57 AM

However, I doubt that the intention was to test lethal nerve agents on troops in field conditions. 

Doubt away, but unless the journalists and politicians raising this issue have misread the documentation (a possibility)  its on the public record that they did. I'd like to read the document myself.
 
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PlatypusMaximus    The Devil Made Me Do It   7/6/2008 1:09:39 PM
As an American, I admire and respect the airing of your dirty laundry in your own front window for all the world to see...Just get your own window.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Errr, PM...   7/7/2008 5:27:09 AM

As an American, I admire and respect the airing of your dirty laundry in your own front window for all the world to see...Just get your own window.


... this is a discussion board that invites comment on defence related issues within a very minimal (and quite justifiable) set of rules. I have also posted this on the Australia board, quite appropriate for an article that covers an important issue in Australian military history and that of Australia's most important allie. Therefore I am terribly sorry if you are offended by one of the less savory aspects of our nation's history  has been aired here as part of telling this story, but that really is tough luck.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Update   7/7/2008 5:32:14 AM
From the Oz.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

link

Answers sought over nerve gas plan

DEFENCE Minister Joel Fitzgibbon has asked for an "urgent and full briefing" from his department about US plans to drop deadly nerve gas bombs on Diggers in Queensland in the 1960s.

The secret US plan to test the effectiveness of nerve gas agents, including sarin gas, in jungle warfare called for the Menzies government to lie to Australians about the nature of the tests to avoid a public backlash.

The revelations, which were contained in recently declassified top secret documents held by the National Archives, shocked Mr Fitzgibbon, who asked for an urgent briefing, promising no such tests would be considered today. The documents from 1963 to 1966 show the extreme lengths to which Washington sought to use its close alliance with Australia to further its own military research at the height of the Cold War, even at the possible cost of Australian lives.

Under the plan - which is not believed to have been acted upon - 200 Australian combat troops, presumably wearing 1960s-era chemical protection suits, were to be subjected to aerial bombardment in the Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland.

The nerve agents were to include VX and GB, better known as sarin nerve gas, both of which can cause almost instant death if they come into contact with skin.

The aim of the tests, illegal under international law, was to gauge the effectiveness of nerve agents in jungle warfare at a time when US military involvement in Vietnam was intensifying. The US proposal for nerve gas tests was made by US defence secretary Robert McNamara in July 1963, according to Defence Department and Prime Minister's Office documents obtained by the Nine Network's Sunday program.

The documents stated that of the 200 troops to be used in the tests, "only four to six would need to know the full details of the operation".

The US proposal recommended that the Australian government keep the nerve agent tests secret, describing them as either "equipment testing" trials or "land reclamation" experiments.

The Australian government is believed to have not responded to the initial US proposal in 1963, but in 1966 Washington approached the new prime minister, Harold Holt, with a request to drop tear gas on Australian troops. Again, Canberra quietly ignored the request.

Mr Fitzgibbon said yesterday it was "difficult to believe any such request came forward, but if it did, surely it would have been rejected by the conservative government of the day out of hand".

"I have asked Defence for an urgent and full briefing on this matter. I can certainly rule out any such testing in the future."

Former prime minister Malcolm Fraser, who was minister for the army from 1966 to 1968, denied knowledge of the US requests. He said it was "extraordinarily unlikely" the testing on Australian troops took place, although he could not rule it out.

"If anything like that had ever been put to me as army minister, defence minister or prime minister, I would not only have said no, I also would have queried ... with the American president: what the hell are your people doing?" Mr Fraser said.

He said he had no doubt Mr McNamara would regret the request. "I've gotten to know him quite well over the last 25 years, and I'm quite sure today he'd be thoroughly ashamed of that request," Mr Fraser said.

Peter Bailey, a former adviser to Mr Holt, told The Australian that the US request was taken seriously by the Australian government and he believed cabinet was divided on the issue.

He said Holt saw the implications of the request.

"He hadn't yet made his 'All the way with LBJ' speech - that was later in the year - but that was a reflection of his propensity to want to be with the Americans and do what they would like to do, but within reason, of course."

Mr Bailey said he briefed Holt on the implications, but Holt never discussed the request with him.

"There were really major issues about breaking international law, and a treaty that we'd signed up to and all sorts of defence implications," Mr Bailey said.

"And I'd seen what had happened to people who'd been gassed in World War I. They were still around at that time, lying out on verandas, ill, with very little comprehension."

Mr Bailey said the issue quietly went away - although he never saw any documents to suggest the government had rebuffed the request. He said he did not believe the testing took place, but it was possible it did. "It's one of those things governments quietly let drop at some point, and then it went away," he said.

Mr Bailey said the documents were first considered by the Defence Department, before coming to the attention of the prime minister.

Australia conducted extensive chemical weapons research during World War II as part of a joint program with Britain and the US.

About 1000 Australian soldiers were involved in mustard gas tests in Queensland in 1942.

British nuclear tests between 1955 and 1963 at the Maralinga site in South Australia resulted in serious health issues for many who were in the area.

 
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PlatypusMaximus       7/7/2008 6:08:25 AM



As an American, I admire and respect the airing of your dirty laundry in your own front window for all the world to see...Just get your own window.






... this is a discussion board that invites comment on defence related issues within a very minimal (and quite justifiable) set of rules. I have also posted this on the Australia board, quite appropriate for an article that covers an important issue in Australian military history and that of Australia's most important allie. Therefore I am terribly sorry if you are offended by one of the less savory aspects of our nation's history  has been aired here as part of telling this story, but that really is tough luck.
That all well & good...but the story is not what the big, bad US wanted to achieve...We nuke our own guys all the time...It's about Oz's acquiescence..which ya didn't....so, whats so unsavory about it?

 
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