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Subject: Action/Issue that you agree with the most by the new Rudd/Labor Govt...
fall out    5/12/2008 11:05:38 PM
Seeing as though 99% of you guys are on the right side of politics, I was wondering now, particularly on budget eve what change, issue or policy that the Rudd Govt have removed, changed or introduced since coming into power that you have agreed with the most?

Me? Saying 'sorry' with stolen children inside parliament was a highlight.

FO

-- I'm not including what you most dislike about the new govt as I know what this will then deteriorate into.
 
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DropBear       5/12/2008 11:45:47 PM
 
I'm glad Joel is happy to fund and introduce Super Hornets for the RAAF (thanks Brendan Nelson).
 
I am also pleased that somebody in power had some small grasp of science and intellect to ratify Kyoto.
 
I am still waiting to see what further policy Penny Wong is going to produce wrt the Murray/Darling Basin.
 
Hmmm, too early to tell on other things. I tend to disagree with several things his circus has done to date.
 
I find it amusing that he and wayne Swan still do things in Canberra just the way they did things in Brisbane. I just wonder who the Canberra version of Wayne Goss will be? I just hope he/she wears chain mail to thwart off the 6 o'clock knives. Old habits die hard.
 
Time will tell.
 
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hairy man       5/13/2008 4:30:52 AM
The ratification of Kyoto and the Sorry are the highlights so far.
On the defence side of things I dont think there have been amy highlights.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       5/13/2008 6:16:09 AM
Hmmm, interesting request for us to drop party politics FO, considering that I've never heard you make any positive comment about the Coalition. Anyway, I'm happy to give credit where it is due, but I'd be interested to hear if you can do the same about our previous government. My picks on Rudd's achievements (I'm not counting continuing good Coalition policies) so far are,
 
-Committing to public spending constraint to reduce inflation and waste.
-Not ditching Coalition appointed public service department heads signalling that they are committed to the Westminster tradition of encouraging apolitical advice from the public service. 
-Mostly getting the government out of consenting adult relationships, by recognising homosexual relationships for financial.
-Telling China how it really is on Tibet.
-Introducing income management for neglectful parents beyond aboriginal communities.
 
 
 
 
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Kevin Pork       5/13/2008 8:58:50 AM

The ratification of Kyoto and the Sorry are the highlights so far.

 

The 2 most farcical things any govt could have done.
Kyoto fails in that, even if it is fully implemented by every country and is utterly successful, the effect is so tiny as to be lost in the statistical noise involved in measuring it.
 
Its also interesting to note that the last time that the planet actually warmed was 1998, but lets not let the facts interfere with a good apocalyptic cult.
 
"Sorry", until they can actually name 10 people who can prove they were stolen it is a load of bleeding heart w*nk.
 
on the bright side, both of the above are going to cost the taxpayer a lot of money over the next few years and neither will achieve a single thing.
 
I liked 2020. it showed how utterly devoted to spin over substance the Rudd govt is.
 
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bigfella       5/13/2008 10:03:43 AM
You aimed WAY too high for this mob FO.
 
Not one of them could manage to just do as you asked, though hairy got close.
 
Remember when the ALP was in opposition? Every other week we got a thread about what a bunch of muppets they were. Unfit for government. Going to wreck the nation. blah blah blah....
 
Where are those fine standards as regards the fallen Tories? Down the memory hole. At no point in the 11 years of Howard's reign did the ALP look remotely as bad as the Libs do now, yet not a peep.
 
What we are witnessing is a big sulk. The entire nation has rejected the conservatives at Federal & State level, and our internet warriors have taken their bat & ball & gone the sulk.
 
It would be the easiest thing in the world for me to replicate the behaviour of my less evolved right wing bretheren & start a thread every week or two about how useless their side of politics is. Brendan Nelson's performance alone could maintain a steady supply of sneering commentary.
 
Hell, if Rudd visiting a strip club was worthy of the sort of puffed up self-righteousness evident here, what does the sickening behaviour of Troy Buswell or the anti-semitism in the Victorian Libs deserve?
 
As it happens I have better things to do & better places to do them. Much as I would enjoy watching 'portraits in hipocracy' on a weekly basis, my intended targets just aren't worth the effort. Like most conservatives (there are exceptions) they are head-kicking frontrunners with a penchant for self-important delusions and 'do as I say, not as I do' pronouncements. All of this works in power, to a point. Out of power it is pathetic beyond words.
 
FO, if you have any sense you will jump ship. SP has been in a downward spiral for a while now. The US board has been turned over to the REAL crazies (read Zhang Fei's posts if you want to see what I mean). The Oz board seems to have lost most of its interesting regulars and interesting threads. (if you want an interesting place to go, email me if you still have my addy, I have a good suggestion).
 
Oh, and what I like most about Rudd so far is that he is not an economically irresponsible, socially divisive, backward looking, anti-intellectual & vicious philanderer who panders to racists. And we have a grown up foreign policy for the first time in a decade.
 
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bigfella       5/13/2008 10:05:09 AM

The ratification of Kyoto and the Sorry are the highlights so far.

On the defence side of things I dont think there have been amy highlights.


I take it back hairy, you did  actually try. Sorry.

 
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Aussiegunneragain    Bigfella   5/13/2008 11:01:34 AM
Ohhh Bigfella, you are so completely full of sh1t! Are you seriously going to tell us that if one of the right wingers (I use the term loosely) on this board started a similar thread asking everybody to give their preferred political party a rap, that you would do so without a suitable caveat? Don't bother answering, there is only one possible answer anyway so there is no point.
 
Anyway, apart from Hairy whom you feel has met your lofty moral standards on this occasion  the only three of us who have responded are Dropbear, myself and Pork. Dropbear and myself were quite happy to give credit where it is due, with reasonable caveats. Pork characteristically went off on an unbalanced ideological rant that completely misses the point of the thread, just like you did. That's the real trick here BF, despite the fact that you despise each other you and Pork are actually two of the most similar people that frequent this site, kinda like SP's own little Stalin and Hitler.
 
Anyway, why don't you take the advice that you gave to Fallout and find another forum to play on. You obviously don't come here for any reason other than to have a go at people, so I don't think that you will be missed. Personally I think that this is one of the more interesting threads that has been raised lately and I just intend to continue to participate as long as other people intend to do so in a semi-intellegent manner. I hope that Fallout isn't drawn into your little game and does the same.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Post budget   5/13/2008 11:17:22 AM
Committing to public spending constraint to reduce inflation and waste.
 
I'm actually a little disappointed on this count now that I've seen the budget. It seems to me that the entire budget is more about shuffling money around away from unfavoured groups to more favoured ones, with the good final result largely being a result of increased revenue forecasts rather than any really tough and needed decisions. 
 
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Kevin Pork       5/13/2008 7:39:42 PM

 Pork characteristically went off on an unbalanced ideological rant that completely misses the point of the thread,


Unbalanced ideological rant?   fine. just name 10 aboriginals who can prove that they were "stolen". if you can't manage that, then it is you pushing the ideology, not I. (hint, don't bother - so far there is only 1).
 
also, refute the widely accepted fact that the earth has not warmed in the last 10 years (in fact it has slightly cooled, but not enough to be statistically significant), otherwise you are pushing an ideological position, not I.
 
Still, if you don't like reality it is always easier to play the man rather than the ball, isn't it?
 
Now you could consider my comments on 2020 ideologically based, but do you REALLY believe it achieved anything?
 
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DropBear    bigfella   5/13/2008 8:26:54 PM
You aimed WAY too high for this mob FO.

Mob, eh? Interesting collective you have put us into.

Not one of them could manage to just do as you asked, though hairy got close.

Your reading and comprehension skills need a tweeking. I think you will find that more than "one of them" actually responded in kind.

Remember when the ALP was in opposition? Every other week we got a thread about what a bunch of muppets they were. Unfit for government. Going to wreck the nation. blah blah blah....
 
Having been on here for several years now I don't quite see how you came up with the "every other week" bit.
 
Wreck the nation, eh? Kinda like how "your mob" seem to think that Howard's Government wrecked the nation, now that they are no longer in.
 
Where are those fine standards as regards the fallen Tories? Down the memory hole. At no point in the 11 years of Howard's reign did the ALP look remotely as bad as the Libs do now, yet not a peep.
 
Tories, eh? Are you talking about British politics or Australian now?
 
What we are witnessing is a big sulk. The entire nation has rejected the conservatives at Federal & State level, and our internet warriors have taken their bat & ball & gone the sulk.
 
Haven't read a comment from any conservative on here resembling anything vaguely like a "sulk".
 
Funny that when we don't like an ALP policy it is "sulking" but when you don't like a conservative policy it is fine.
 
Remind me about those double standards you harp on about.
 
It would be the easiest thing in the world for me to replicate the behaviour of my less evolved right wing bretheren & start a thread every week or two about how useless their side of politics is. Brendan Nelson's performance alone could maintain a steady supply of sneering commentary.
 
Less evolved, eh?
 
Glad to see that your higher evolutionary makeup has dispensed with any form of condescending attitude you may have towards people who don't agree with your own personal views...oops.
 
Sneering commentary seems to be another one of your more highly evolved characteristics doesn't it?

Hell, if Rudd visiting a strip club was worthy of the sort of puffed up self-righteousness evident here, what does the sickening behaviour of Troy Buswell or the anti-semitism in the Victorian Libs deserve?
 
Yup, if I were married I would stay away from a strip club. kinda goes along with being married. I'd also not try and fob it off with a pathetic excuse that I didn't know I was entering said establishment when strip clubs tend to be highly visible and marked as such. Sorry, I can't comment about this Buswell fellow as I have never heard of him, nor is he in a position to represent all Australians overseas as a Prime Minister. I have no doubt he is a muppet though, if he has come out with such comments/behaviour as you say.

As it happens I have better things to do & better places to do them.

Like finish that Doctorate? Isn't supposed to be about Vietnam? In all these years on SP I have read very little of your studies on said topic. Strange when one considers this is a website regarding military strategies and the like.

Much as I would enjoy watching 'portraits in hipocracy' on a weekly basis, my intended targets just aren't worth the effort.

It's that whole evolutionary thing again isn't it?

Like most conservatives (there are exceptions) they are head-kicking frontrunners with a penchant for self-important delusions and 'do as I say, not as I do' pronouncements. All of this works in power, to a point. Out of power it is pathetic beyond words.
 
Much like your tiresome diatribes.

FO, if you have any sense you will jump ship. SP has been in a downward spiral for a while now. The US board has been turned over to the REAL crazies (read Zhang Fei's posts if you want to see what I mean). The Oz board seems to have lost most of its interesting regulars and interesting threads. (if you want an interesting place to go, email me if you still have my addy, I have a good suggestion).
 
SP ebbs and flows. I am sure FO knows the score and he obviously comes on here for both serious and fun banter. If you don't like talking about military strategies on a military strategies site then you are free to bug out. FO, obviously doesn't share your view in that respect.
 
Oh, and what I like most about Rudd so far is that he is not an economically irresponsible, socially divisive, backward looking, anti-intellectual & vicious philanderer who panders to racists. And we have a grown up foreign policy for the first time in a decade.
 
No, but he is a backstabbing grubby little munchkin who does what is in the best interest of his own career.
 
I guess the voters can't always get what they want, eh?
 
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Anyway...   5/17/2008 12:41:12 AM
... back to the actual topic of Fallout's thread. I'm impressed with the front page news in the Oz today that the ALP is forshadowing a major increase in migration quota's, including a shift towards increasing the numbers of unskilled as well as skilled workers. It seems that they have finally worked out that we have a short-term labour shortage rather than just as skills shortage and are willing to take the only short-term measure that will address it. It will be interesting to see how they deal with any opposition from the Unions, who will fear downward pressure on wages (even with more favourable conditions under Labor it would mean that less people can get deals for above award wages). If the softer than expected budget is anything to go by I'm not holding out hope for radical action, but moderate action would be a step in the right direction.
 
I'm particularily rapt that they are going to trial a South Pacific guest worker scheme as it will not only mean that we will have enough workers to pick all the fruit in rural areas, but it will provide real incomes for people in the region. That could go a long way towards reducing poverty, with the associated security risks. It might even help to reduce the necessity for us to deploy the military there so often and would definately allow our aid budget to be used more effectively.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Labor promises massive increase in migration to lure workers

IMMIGRATION Minister Chris Evans wants a major overhaul of the migrant program to boost numbers, promote unskilled as well as skilled applicants and gear Australia to the new global competition for workers.

Predicting a "great national debate over the next few years", Senator Evans said he planned to bring a series of cabinet submissions to reform a "model that is out of date" and too unresponsive to employer needs. He said the debate about temporary migration was over; the coming debate would be about semi-skilled and unskilled migrants to meet labour shortages.

Next month, cabinet is expected to approve a pilot program for a guest worker scheme from the South Pacific. Senator Evans called this a "stalking horse" for the larger debate on unskilled migration.

His comments came after the Rudd Government's first budget, delivered on Tuesday, lifted permanent and temporary migration for 2008-09 to nearly 300,000 in the biggest annual increase since the program's inception by the Chifley government in the 1940s.

The skilled component of the permanent intake is running at 70 per cent, probably the highest ever.

"My general view is that we are increasingly facing a labour shortage, not just a skills shortage," Senator Evans told The Weekend Australian.

"The demands of business are hitting us in the face. What I'm thinking about is a fairly serious overhaul of the migration system and trying to design a visa and migration system that meets the realities of the 21st century and the internationalisation of the labour market.

"There is a lack of responsiveness to employer needs. What's not widely understood is that there is a global competition for labour. The workforce is more contract based. BHP (Billiton) brings an engineer here from South America for two years and he'll be in Africa two years later. It's the nature of his work."

Asked about the hefty increase in the intake announced on budget night, Senator Evans said: "It was certainly driven by the economics.

"No doubt Wayne Swan had his eyeon wage inflation pressure and Treasury advice about that. But fundamentally it's a response to the huge demand for labour."

Senator Evans said the Government's first response to shortages was more education and training but "the reality is that there are demands now that won't be met by that agenda". This was true in the short-term and long-term.

He said he had two aims - to make the program more responsive to industry and to restore its integrity, notably the457 temporary visas, to eliminate exploitation and any undermining of Australian conditions. This was critical because there was urgent pressure on the 457 program for a shift down the skill scale from professionals such as doctors and engineers to tradesmen and IT workers.

"The demand is often for truck drivers, store managers, below tradesman-level jobs in the mining industry," Senator Evans said. "More broadly we have an ageing population. My inclination is not to do reviews, but get on with it. As a cabinet, we are engaged with this issue.

"I think Australians are prepared to accept strong migration provided they think we need the skills and contributions that people bring."

He foreshadowed a relaxation of the former government's rigid rules about migrants' ability to speak English. Some of its measures were "pretty clunky and actually stopped business operating".



www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23711763-601,00.html
 
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fall out       5/17/2008 4:35:27 AM
Well thanks to those few who discussed their regarded positives, i'm over pointless arguments or more to the point bitching that goes on between rival politics on here.  Just please try to keep it together more which then makes posting on here actually interesting, otherwise I just tune out.  I'm trying (haven't even named anyone), perhaps everyone could improve.

I've always been in favour of a big increase in migration, I'd like to see some quality ideas coming out about what to do with the expected EXTRA $80B over the next 4 years from the mining boom; some structural change like a big overhaul of the tax system, or perhaps infrastructure spending, anything that helps to ensure future prosperity, rather than just spending it now for votes.

 
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AMTP10F       5/17/2008 7:18:57 AM

Well thanks to those few who discussed their regarded positives, i'm over pointless arguments or more to the point bitching that goes on between rival politics on here.  Just please try to keep it together more which then makes posting on here actually interesting, otherwise I just tune out.  I'm trying (haven't even named anyone), perhaps everyone could improve.

I've always been in favour of a big increase in migration, I'd like to see some quality ideas coming out about what to do with the expected EXTRA $80B over the next 4 years from the mining boom; some structural change like a big overhaul of the tax system, or perhaps infrastructure spending, anything that helps to ensure future prosperity, rather than just spending it now for votes.

There are two things that Rudd/Labor have done right: dump the Sprogs and tell a lecture hall full of Chinese students (in their own language) that the situation in Tibet ain't cool.

As for the 'Sorry', I think both Rudd and Nelson did a decent job.

Before any decisions on tax or government spending I believe that our most desperate need is to have a good sit down and a think about governments and society. Basically, we need to decide what government should and (most importantly) should not have a role in.

 It should start with at least three main foundations:

1. Problems/issues should be dealt with at the lowest and most appropriate possible level.
2. Government (at any level) is the absolute last resort.
3. When it comes to government, small is beautiful.

Once that is done then decisions need to be made about what level (local, state, federal) of government owns what issues. This needs to be done with the idea that there is no overlap in responsibilities (as there is with health and education now) and the owner is responsible for raising and expending the money.

Then, and only then, can we start looking at the tax system.
 
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Kevin Pork       5/17/2008 7:26:51 AM
I hate to rain on the pro immigration parade, but what are we going to do with a heap of extra unskilled workers when the economy slows down? they are already predicting an increase in unemployment - why not look at them first. 
 
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gf0012-aust       5/17/2008 8:35:22 AM

they are already predicting an increase in unemployment - why not look at them first. 


starting from next week, the employment/unemployment process is under the gun for review.  in fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the entire jobnetwork concept took a hammering.

as night follows day, you can bet your money that this sector is headed for a gigantic shakeup...
 
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