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Subject: Good reads
gf0012-aust    4/6/2008 12:25:06 AM
Bought "Forgotten Valour" the other day. ISBN 174110486-6

I had no idea that we had troops (including a VC winner) fighting in the russian civil war some 9 months after WW1 had finished.

a fascinating read....
 
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bigfella       4/6/2008 6:35:52 AM
One of our lesser known military adventures.
 
I remember hearing about it over 20 years ago. Did a small amount of digging & discovered that we had several hundred troops in Russia under British command. Very strange indeed.
 
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Volkodav       4/6/2008 6:40:03 AM
One has to wonder what the world would be like today if they had pushed on and incidentally taken out a few of the more obnoxious revolutionary personallities?
 
Ah now that would be a great "What If".
 
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AdvanceAustralia       4/6/2008 7:18:44 AM

One of our lesser known military adventures.

 

I remember hearing about it over 20 years ago. Did a small amount of digging & discovered that we had several hundred troops in Russia under British command. Very strange indeed.

Nothing strange about trying to snuff out the world's first communist regime at its birth and returning the land it stole to its rightful owners. Commendable, in fact.

 
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Yimmy       4/6/2008 2:11:20 PM
Shame the White forces were so disorganised.


 
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scraw       4/7/2008 4:01:01 AM
Ahh, I read a book on this when I was living in Ireland.

Cheekily Ironside was later created Baron of Arcangel :o

 
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bigfella       4/7/2008 10:51:01 AM




One of our lesser known military adventures.



 



I remember hearing about it over 20 years ago. Did a small amount of digging & discovered that we had several hundred troops in Russia under British command. Very strange indeed.



Nothing strange about trying to snuff out the world's first communist regime at its birth and returning the land it stole to its rightful owners. Commendable, in fact.

 
 
You can't actually be this dense can you? It is just a put on, isn't it?

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
strange    Audio Help   [streynj] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, strang·er, strang·est, adverb
?adjective
1. unusual, extraordinary, or curious; odd; queer: a strange remark to make.
 
Personally I would have thought that Australian troops sent to Western Europe to fight Germany ending up in far Eastern Europe fighting Bolsheviks fitted the above definition quite well. There was no value judgement attached, though I am not surprised you managed to find one.
 
In a rare moment of clarity you have actually made a good point - trying to snuff out the Bolshevik regime was a good idea. Stopped clocks & all that. Unfortunately you have lapsed back into gibberish thereafter.
 
What exactly did the Bolsheviks steal, and who were the 'rightful owners?
 
*You can't mean the Finns, Estonians, Latvians or Lithuanians, all of whom got to keep their independence after the revolution (sadly for only a generation in most cases). Indeed, one of the reasons the Whites lost was their insistence on promising to 'restore the Empire'. 
*It can't be the ethnic Muslims in the south who didn't get their independence, otherwise I would have expected to see you raise some sort of concern about the murder of 20% of the population of Chechenya by post-Communist Russian governments.
*I suppose it could be the Belorussians or Ukrainians, though, as established, they wouldn't have been getting their independence either way.
*You can't mean the 'Russian People', as they had spent the whole of their history as subjects of the most vile totalitarian Monachy imaginable. It is a tribute to the depth of the evil that followed that people so easily forge just how bad Tzarist Russia was. You can't get back what you don't have to lose.
*In an ever decreasing field this seems to leave the Romanovs & their flunkies. They lost any claim to Russia by oppressing & abusing its people for centuries, though their descandents will no doubt be pleased to discover they still have supporters in modern Australia.
 
Look, I don't wish to seem unsympathetic. It must be tough being a conservative in Australia at the moment. Really, it must. I can understand the desire to lash out at the nearest leftie, you know, just to prove you still can. Like in the good old days when anyone you disagreed with was an 'elitist'. Unfortunately for you, those times have passed. So, stop making a fool of yourself by taking a swipe at every passing comment I make. You just look like a goose.
 
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AdvanceAustralia    bf   4/8/2008 4:14:40 AM
You forgot to write "rant over" at the end of your last.

Quite an attempt at a "straw man" argument there. No I didn't mean any of the above groups (categorising people into groups who are "victimised" is a leftie thing) and I wasn't referring to independence for anyone. I meant ordinary people anywhere who had their land taken off them by the Bolsheviks. You didn't need to be a rich landowning Romanov or "flunky" as you call them to have owned land and had it stolen. There were also many innocent individual peasants who owned small-holdings who lost out. My great-grandmother had her small plot of land and single cow taken from her and she was given 25 years hard labor for "exploitation". There were many others like her.

The rest of your post is drivel. I don't spend much time in Australia so I don't know if its tough being a conservative here. From what I hear, Kevin Rudd has continued his me-too-ism so maybe he's not been that bad. Time will tell. I even saw him salute George Bush the other night!

I have hardly been "...taking a swipe at every passing comment..." you make. I've been away for two months and didn't read or post to SP in that time. Getting a little paranoid bf? Funny you mention it though, I could have sworn that was you that responded to my very first post after two months. Not that I worry about such things.

Cheers.



 
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Hugo    Bigfella   4/8/2008 4:48:54 PM

But surely despite the massive faults of the Tsarist monarchy, the slow steps towards democracy and economic (and with it social) reform taking place after 1905, did hold much promise and if it wasn`t for Nicholas` war mongering, and had the First World War not broken out the Russian people would have been far better off.

There weren`t many things I can think of that the Bolsheviks did that I could label as being morally sound.  Ending the war was a good thing but the dismantlement of the Soviet Empire was something they couldn`t prevent and probably wouldn`t have allowed given the chance.  The independence of Baltic and other nations was something demanded of them by Germany after Tsarist defeat in 1917.

There were some genuine reformers in the Russian interwar years (1905-1914) and I think it was a small window of promise - the likes of which the Russians had never seen before or since (with possible exception of 1990 which Yeltsin stuffed up) that held much promise.  I pity the Russian - her history is one dominated by either poor or murderous leadership.

 
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beersheba       4/9/2008 3:08:44 AM
If you are feeling a little funky and have a thing for books/movies such as ``The Boys From Brazil'', get you grubby paws on ``The Castle in the Forest.''
 
If you love a grubby sex scene (think the romantic moment between Jude Law and Rachel Weiz in ``Enemy at the Gates.'' What could be more lusty than dropping the anchor with some reds dropping their guts as a soundtrack) then you will enjoy ``The Castle in the Forest.''
 
It takes us through the sordid encounters that lead to Hitler's birth as told by a certain devil, who then follows his project in the body of an SS officer.
 
It's a wild ride but worth the tickets. ``Not quite Forgotten Valor'' more ``Bad Boy Bubby'' but you get the drift.
 
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