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Subject: www.theaustralian.news.com.au: Defence cuts 'endanger 4th destroyer'
tjkhan    3/23/2008 7:37:23 PM
Defence cuts 'endanger 4th destroyer'
Mark Dodd | March 24, 2008

THE Rudd Government's announcement that it intends to slash $10 billion in defence funding over the next decade has been condemned as sounding the death knell for the navy's fourth air warfare destroyer while jeopardising the project's economic benefits for South Australia.

The surprise budget cuts marked a return to the Labor of old - hostile to the military - and all Australians should be worried about the development, Opposition defence spokesman Nick Minchin said yesterday.

But Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon strongly rejected the charges, telling The Australian that all savings will be returned to defence and would not affect the capability plans.

He said the cuts were necessary after the Howard government's multi-billion defence splurge.

Targets had been set and it was now up to Defence bureaucrats to report back to the Government on where savings would be made.

These would most likely fall most heavily on the civilian component of Defence, with gains of up to $1 billion a year, Mr Fitzgibbon said.

"In coming years Labor will spend a record amount of money on defence - more than the Howard government ever spent," he said. "Labor will ensure these record amounts are spent efficiently and effectively.

"We will stop the waste and mismanagement, and trim the fat out of the Defence bureaucracy."

Areas such as operations, logistics and capability would not be touched, he said.

And he told the Nine Network's Sunday program the Government was re-examining the prospects of acquiring the stealth F-22 Raptor fighter, which is currently prohibited for export by the US Congress.

Senator Minchin said he was unconvinced of the minister's claims that defence cuts would target only civilian employees, and he warned that the razor gang's axe was likely to fall on forward procurements.

He accused Mr Fitzgibbon of "sneaking out" the details of the cuts two days after parliament rose for an eight-week break.

"This is a very significant announcement and should have been done properly and released properly while parliament was sitting so it could be properly scrutinised," he said. "It is quite an extraordinary announcement to demand that the defence budget be cut by $1billion a year for the next 10 years.

"I am worried this is a return to the Labor of old, because Labor has a long tradition of being hostile to defence."

Labor had broken its promise on defence spending by restricting annual growth to a maximum of 3per cent compared with 3.5 per cent under the Coalition, Senator Minchin said. With multiple security risks looming, now was not the time to be cutting the defence budget to fund Labor's other election promises, he said.

The order for 100 advanced Joint Strike Fighters was now in jeopardy and so was the prospect of the navy getting a fourth air warfare destroyer.

Three 6250-tonne destroyers will be built by the Australian Submarine Corporation at its South Australian Osborne yard for an estimated $6 billion. Canberra says it is keeping open its options for a fourth.

"All South Australians should be concerned about what is now likely to be an order for only three, not four," Senator Minchin said. "There is much to be said for a fourth ship."

 
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BLUIE006       3/23/2008 10:21:07 PM
Labour would be crazy to not get a 4th /5 th AWD - it would leave Australia without an effective surface fleet,and actually reduce costs, maintain skill base, etc
 
Question:Would anyone here rather expensive F-22 , over 100 F-35 B/C and 5-6 F-100 AWD/ 2 LHD ????
 
They  seem to be right into high tech fighters and Subs labour ??  why  is that?????
 
Down with the new Subs though....
 
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       3/23/2008 10:40:26 PM
somebody should ask the journos to do some basic sums.
 
eg efficiency gains done since 2003 involved public servants bringing in commercial accountability issues
if you sacked the entire civilian component, then you'd still not realise $1bn savings per annum
 
this bloke is either getting baaaaaaad advice, or is clueless as to how things actually work.
 
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gf0012-aust       3/23/2008 10:45:52 PM

Down with the new Subs though....

 

huh???  can you explain the statement in case I'm becoming red faced and frothy for nothing??
you do realise that some of the best intel that the allies get out of various theatre space (and even Iraq) is from subs?
you do realise that some of the best intel we gather is due to subs?
you do realise that some of the leading edge capability for sig management in subs is australian developed?
 
that capability is from an industry base that was orphaned and pilloried by a local press who wouldn't know a surfboard from a parrot.


 
 
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Enterpriser       3/23/2008 11:38:01 PM




Down with the new Subs though....



 



huh???  can you explain the statement in case I'm becoming red faced and frothy for nothing??

you do realise that some of the best intel that the allies get out of various theatre space (and even Iraq) is from subs?

you do realise that some of the best intel we gather is due to subs?

you do realise that some of the leading edge capability for sig management in subs is australian developed?

 

that capability is from an industry base that was orphaned and pilloried by a local press who wouldn't know a surfboard from a parrot.



 



Calm Down G..........! 
You've probably misunderstood the vernacular. If my knowlegde of the lingo for the younger generations is correct then we need a 180 on our interpretation of Blue's comments. "Down With" may not refer to anything in a derrisive sense, but rather the "African American" expression of "comfortable with/accepting of/perfectly happy with/ agree with" something (in this case the acquisition of a new generation of advanced submarines).
 
As such, if in this context, it needs to be contrasted with "Down with America" type statements. Word? :) :P
 
Brett.
 
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Kevin Pork       3/24/2008 12:43:01 AM
"Labor had broken its promise on defence spending by restricting annual growth to a maximum of 3per cent compared with 3.5 per cent under the Coalition"
 
Well on the bright side, there goes Labor and its supporters ability to ever criticise "non core promises" again without being shown to be monumental hypocrites.
 
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gf0012-aust       3/24/2008 12:48:30 AM

Calm Down G..........! 
You've probably misunderstood the vernacular. If my knowlegde of the lingo for the younger generations is correct then we need a 180 on our interpretation of Blue's comments. "Down With" may not refer to anything in a derrisive sense, but rather the "African American" expression of "comfortable with/accepting of/perfectly happy with/ agree with" something (in this case the acquisition of a new generation of advanced submarines).

As such, if in this context, it needs to be contrasted with "Down with America" type statements. Word? :) :P
 
Brett.


are you suggesting that I am an old fart? :)
 
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Aussiegunneragain       3/24/2008 1:09:55 AM

Labour would be crazy to not get a 4th /5 th AWD - it would leave Australia without an effective surface fleet,and actually reduce costs, maintain skill base, etc

 

Question:Would anyone here rather expensive F-22 , over 100 F-35 B/C and 5-6 F-100 AWD/ 2 LHD ????

 

They  seem to be right into high tech fighters and Subs labour ??  why  is that?????

 

Down with the new Subs though.... 


They no doubt prioritised subs and fighters during the Hawke/Keating years, because they are a better fit in the DOA doctrine than AWD's. Personally I think that defence of merchant shipping in world hotspots has been, is and always will be a more likely task for a trading nation like Australia and that DOA could have been credibly conducted with a substantially smaller capability than we had. As such I would rather have seen the ALP commission AEGIS equipped AWD's during the 80's, even if it meant putting off the purchase of some or all of the Collins class and soldiering on with the O-Boats, and/or retiring some or all of the F-111's and making do with tanker-supported Bugs. That isn't to say that I don't recognise the value of the Collins's and F-111's in roles other than DOA. I would rather they hadn't cut the defence budget by 25% in 1986/87 and ensured that we had all these capabilities, but as a matter of priority I think AWD's are second only in importance to modern multi-role fighters for Australia and that neglecting to make them a priority was a poor decision. 
 

 
 
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Enterpriser       3/24/2008 2:30:25 AM




Calm Down G..........! 

You've probably misunderstood the vernacular. If my knowlegde of the lingo for the younger generations is correct then we need a 180 on our interpretation of Blue's comments. "Down With" may not refer to anything in a derrisive sense, but rather the "African American" expression of "comfortable with/accepting of/perfectly happy with/ agree with" something (in this case the acquisition of a new generation of advanced submarines).



As such, if in this context, it needs to be contrasted with "Down with America" type statements. Word? :) :P

 

Brett.




are you suggesting that I am an old fart? :)



No! Nooo, no, no, no, no, no. no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no ...............................well, yes.    :P  (being only 22 myself, practically everyone else is, at least in comparison)
 
Brett.
 
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gf0012-aust       3/24/2008 3:16:41 AM
are you auditioning for the vicar of dibley?? ;)
 
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Aussiegunneragain       3/24/2008 5:48:41 AM

are you auditioning for the vicar of dibley?? ;)


I'd be interested in hearing what you think he would be auditioning if he had said "yes, yes, yess ...".
 
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Arty Farty       3/24/2008 11:27:34 PM
I though it was odd when the cuts were made public on a Saturday, and during the Easter weekend.
 
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