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Subject: Seasprogs have been axed at last
DropBear    3/4/2008 7:47:41 PM

Finally.

Now what do we do with 11 frames?

Curious.
 
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Volkodav       3/4/2008 11:14:39 PM
Find out if Kaman will buy them back or take them back for a reduction in their claims against us.
 
Failing that convert them to components as the spare parts value would be substantially higher than the value of aircraft are non operational.
 
Final option see how much it will cost to convert them into operational utility aircraft and sell them in this condition or even use them for the proposed Customs OPV's (full circle).
 
Something that caught my eye in the Australian:
 
In March 2007, the helicopter's manufacturer, US-based Kaman Aviation, warned the Howard government that it would face a lengthy legal battle if it scrapped the program. Kaman said that cancellation would generate an arbitration process that would uphold both the reputation of the Seasprite platform and its manufacturer and expose weaknesses in the Defence Department's equipment procurement system.
 
A pretty hollow threat as not only are we aware that it was our own procurement processes, in particular poorly written contracts, that left us open to such monumental stuff ups as this; but we are already reaping the benefits in our new projects from the substantial reforms that were introduced to prevent a recurrence of the Seasprite fiasco.  Grand standing and carrying on will only see them black listed as a supplier for good as we are not answerable to the GAO appeals process and can buy what we want from who we want.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       3/5/2008 1:22:54 AM

Final option see how much it will cost to convert them into operational utility aircraft and sell them in this condition or even use them for the proposed Customs OPV's (full circle).
 

NOOOooooooooooo!!! We shouldn't be spending a single cent more on these bloody things, it is just throwing good money after bad. Either sell them off for parts or to somebody else who wants to convert them, or dump them on a firing range and use them for M-1 target practice.
If we are going to get Custom's OPV's they won't need a fully-fledged military helecopter, just something that can do basic observation and transport work. Just fit them out with a navalised version of whatever light training helecopter we end up getting, perhaps with a FLIR unit for night observation and pintal mounted GPMG to scare Indonesian fishermen with.  At least if we do that we know the bloody things will work and we will be working towards the original goal of AIR 9000, which was to rationalise the number of basic helecopter airframes in the ADF down from 13 to 4.  

 
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gf0012-aust       3/5/2008 2:15:26 AM

 Grand standing and carrying on will only see them black listed as a supplier for good as we are not answerable to the GAO appeals process and can buy what we want from who we want.


they can go for their life on invoking threats of litigation.  the last muppet company that tried that one on ended up withdrawing and still haven't had work since - and won't get new work ever.
 
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Lawman       3/5/2008 6:38:03 AM
The problem is that Kaman haven't got much to lose, they don't really do much other than the Seasprite and K-Max (do they?). As such, they may try to do as much as humanly possible to muddy the waters, and make the ADF procurement process look like it was handled by fools.
 
In a sense, it is a pity that they didn't just strip out the insides and fit them with a simple FLIR and hoist, and use them for simple VertRep and SAR - okay, the most expensive utility choppers, but it would have avoided some of this unpleasantness.
 
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Volkodav       3/5/2008 7:16:22 AM
and make the ADF procurement process look like it was handled by fools.
 
The process was run by fools.
 
Once the OPV was canned the justification for going for the smaller helicopter over buying additional Seahawks kitted out with Penguins went out the window.  The Sprogs, in any shape or form, should not have been ordered in the first place but to have gone for a unique integrated avionic system took the project from foolish to insane.
 
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DropBear       3/5/2008 5:58:50 PM
Funny old world isn't it.
 
I don't remember EXACTLY why the Sprogs won the comp. Can't simply be the whole engine commonality thing.
 
I'll have to go back and re read the articles at the time, but I wonder why the Lynx wasn't chosen.
 
We would have had it in service years ago. Kinda reminds me of the Wedgy program. Imagine if we had ordered E-767 instead.
 
Sigh.
 
 
 
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Volkodav       3/5/2008 6:17:28 PM
I'll have to go back and re read the articles at the time, but I wonder why the Lynx wasn't chosen.
 
Westland didn't offer Penguin, using Sea Killer instead.  The RAN chose the missile they wanted and then tried to build a platform to carry it.
 
NZ actually chose the Super Lynx but reversed the desision when we went for the Sprog.
 
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