DoD media release: NEW WARSHIP PERTH DELIVERED TO AUSTRALIA?S NAVY

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Nichevo RE:Oh please - a personal combat weapon? 6/20/2006 7:42:03 PM

I suppose then it would be one or two ~20" barrels stuffed up with a few dozen rounds each? Hm. Sounds like an adjunct to the rifle, not a substitute. Perhaps an MG sub, I guess I could see that. No, still trying to visualize. Maybe you should set it up like a claymore...

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gf0012-aust RE:Oh please - a personal combat weapon? 6/20/2006 7:55:34 PM

"I suppose then it would be one or two ~20" barrels stuffed up with a few dozen rounds each? Hm." No, its a normal over and under config - with the grenade launcher being multiple round - you could literally get volume grenade fire on target at 50-80 times faster than a traditional "over and under" "Sounds like an adjunct to the rifle, not a substitute." no, it will be the standard replacement weapon. a sniper rifle is being looked at and is a separate issue. "Maybe you should set it up like a claymore... " already dealt with in the perimeter defence model.

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SteelGear RE:Oh please - a personal combat weapon? 6/20/2006 8:16:14 PM

--No, its a normal over and under config - with the grenade launcher being multiple round - you could literally get volume grenade fire on target at 50-80 times faster than a traditional "over and under"-- They have a prototype that already works to that effect as part of the AICW Click here for the article --------------------- Metal Storm Demos Advanced Individual Combat Weapon (AICW) Prototype The AICW is an integrated weapon concept which combines a standard 5.56mm Steyr assault rifle and a Metal Storm 40mm grenade launcher in a single unit with a common trigger, laser sight and control system that operates both the 5.56mm and the 40mm barrels. The benched test firing demonstrated the AICW?s ability to... switch between 5.56mm and 40mm barrels instantly and without reloading. The 40mm barrel incorporates the Metal Storm electronically initiated ?stacked munitions? system and can fire three rounds before re-loading is required. The project was designed to evaluate the possible technologies available for the next generation of individual combat weapons, with emphasis on increasing the lethality of the weapon thereby enhancing the soldier?s capability and survivability. Conventional 40mm grenade launching systems used with combat weapons are fitted as an add-on component with separate aiming and trigger devices and can only fire single rounds before reloading. The perceived advantage of the AICW concept is that the grenade launcher capability is fully integrated into the one combat weapon, and as it utilises Metal Storm technology, it can carry up to three rounds in the barrel ready to fire using the integrated common operating systems. The trial firings engaged targets at 100, 200 and 300m, each with three 40mm projectiles, fired at a nominal velocity of 95m/s. In addition, the target at 300m was engaged with the standard 5.56mm rounds that are currently in service. The firings demonstrated the capability of engaging consistently a target the size of a window or doorway at 100m. New technology associated with recoil mitigation, sighting systems, and electronic fire control was also demonstrated. Metal Storm's Chief Executive Officer, Mr David Smith said ?The ability to fire multiple 40mm shots without reloading, from an individual combat weapon, we believe will provide a major capability enhancement compared to existing individual combat weapons. ?There has been significant international effort placed on trying to develop a fully integrated individual combat weapon which provides for a 5.56 mm rifle and a grenade launcher system with greater range, improved fire control and at the right weight. AICW is well along the path to achieving all these capabilities. ?Our objective now is to build on the success of the AICW Capability Demonstrator project through an industry funded effort to further refine and ultimately commercialise the concept. The next generation will incorporate the latest developments in Metal Storm technology (which has advanced since the AICW program began). Combined with the current development of High Explosive rounds, we are now very close to being able to deliver a much more advanced individual combat weapon that includes all the required capabilities at an appropriate weight level.? David Smith stated.

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Nichevo RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/20/2006 10:57:26 PM

Nothing to do with the rifle part at all. Right, carry on. Well...Gosh, you Aussies are so contentious lately I scarcely like to bother you...but do you really want to spray-and-pray with grenades, as opposed to sighting them one at a time? No doubt, no doubt it has its uses, e.g., if you want a squad to look like a company at night. But it sure seems you would just use up your ammo faster. OTOH, I assume they MAY be fired one at a time? In which case it seems a nice option. And if a loaded barrel could just be swapped out for a new one, I guess reloads are quick enough. If compared to the OICW concept, how can these rounds be programmed? Wirelessly?

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gf0012-aust RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/20/2006 11:10:31 PM

"but do you really want to spray-and-pray with grenades, as opposed to sighting them one at a time?" how does having greater organic firepower translate to "spray and wipe"? "No doubt, no doubt it has its uses, e.g., if you want a squad to look like a company at night. But it sure seems you would just use up your ammo faster. " only if your forces aren't disciplined. if you look through the histgory of aust troopers you don't come across accounts of them indulging in spray and wipe contacts. anyone behaving like a windscreen wiper would get their arse kicked. that kind of attitude would be savagely removed. "OTOH, I assume they MAY be fired one at a time? In which case it seems a nice option." metalstorm has always been select fire. in the multibarreled weapons its also select chamber. ie different round can be loaded into different barrels and then selected as part of a firing sequence. "And if a loaded barrel could just be swapped out for a new one, I guess reloads are quick enough. If compared to the OICW concept, how can these rounds be programmed? Wirelessly? " on a metalstorm multi-barreled weapon it can be pad selected. the AICW is not a "MS multi", its a combination weapon, so round variance is operator defined. the point defence weapon is slaved to the sensor system - that could be hard wired or whatever else is available in the field. it is effect, a registered weapon.

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scraw RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/21/2006 1:27:52 AM

Good god it's ugly though :o

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SSGT Kingston RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/21/2006 2:00:00 AM

I have had a fiddle with a mockup... not the prettiest weapon out there but no doubt it will get the job done (If they ever decide to issue it).

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Nichevo RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/21/2006 2:24:07 AM

"but do you really want to spray-and-pray with grenades, as opposed to sighting them one at a time?" how does having greater organic firepower translate to "spray and wipe"? --IIRC the key to MetalStorm was the astounding rate of fire achieved with multiple barrels plus the lack of any mechanical, reciprocating firing system. Thus I intuited the req for MS in a grenade launcher was the ability to let off those three rounds rather quickly. I suppose the no-moving-parts firing system also increases reliability. But if it's not needed to fire off all your grenades at once, one of those revolving GLs would offer higher capacity. Not that you could fit one on an OICW. "No doubt, no doubt it has its uses, e.g., if you want a squad to look like a company at night. But it sure seems you would just use up your ammo faster. " only if your forces aren't disciplined. if you look through the histgory of aust troopers you don't come across accounts of them indulging in spray and wipe contacts. anyone behaving like a windscreen wiper would get their arse kicked. that kind of attitude would be savagely removed. --fine, so you are not doing AICW MS GLs for the sake of the rapid fire, but for some other reason. "OTOH, I assume they MAY be fired one at a time? In which case it seems a nice option." metalstorm has always been select fire. in the multibarreled weapons its also select chamber. ie different round can be loaded into different barrels and then selected as part of a firing sequence. --right, and before I had understood it was the GL I was wondering if it were the bullets being thus fired. All clear. "And if a loaded barrel could just be swapped out for a new one, I guess reloads are quick enough. If compared to the OICW concept, how can these rounds be programmed? Wirelessly? " on a metalstorm multi-barreled weapon it can be pad selected. the AICW is not a "MS multi", its a combination weapon, so round variance is operator defined. --I'm sorry, I did not understand this. The US 25mm OICW GL incorporates a smart shell which can be programmed, upon loading into the chamber, with different fuzing modes. Assuming a single round in the breech at one time, electrical contacts to transmit electrical signals to the munition can be hypothesized. In a MS barrel with three or more rounds this seems tougher, so does it have such ability, and is it through wires or wireless? If I am overcomplicating, put it this way - when and how does the operator define "round variance?" the point defence weapon is slaved to the sensor system - that could be hard wired or whatever else is available in the field. it is effect, a registered weapon. Right, this vaguely resembles my disposable mortar concept. MS tubes could be used as the munition instead of a mortar head on a spike. I suppose PGMs are being designed for MS launch.

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SSGT Kingston RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/21/2006 3:42:11 AM

As far as i can recall, all that complicated computer equipment helped to kill the OICW. The AICW is a replacement for the current F88 Austeyr, using the MS system to give troops the ability to fire off 3 40mm rounds from an integrated barrel before having to reload, thus giving them a great advantage over traditional 1 shot M203 style GLA's. The AICW does incorporate an advanced sighting system, though how much that relates to the 40mm launcher and not the ADF's mini "land warrior" concept i dont know. I dont believe that the AICW is supposed to be the "super weapon" that the OICW was meant to be. Just a much improved individual weapon. But i am sure that there are much more knowledgable ppl here. Cheers.

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SteelGear RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/22/2006 12:19:06 AM

--The AICW is a replacement for the current F88 Austeyr, using the MS system to give troops the ability to fire off 3 40mm rounds from an integrated barrel before having to reload, thus giving them a great advantage over traditional 1 shot M203 style GLA's.-- Just as a follow up. This Statement doesn't in any way translate into an Australian Soldier firing multiple 40mm round in quick succession despite claims by Nichevo attesting to the high cyclic rate of the previous metal storm prototypes. --As far as i can recall, all that complicated computer equipment helped to kill the OICW.-- Yep.....all that lasing a target using an over priced airbursting munition is nice but it is not as cost effective as some might think. Not too mention that it was bulky and wieghed way more than an M16a4 /w M203. Just some of the primary reasons why US DoD pulled the plug on the OICW program (although I think the XM8 looked alright). --I dont believe that the AICW is supposed to be the "super weapon" that the OICW was meant to be. Just a much improved individual weapon.-- Very true. I don't think it was ever claimed by anyone in the Australian Defence Industry, the Military or any member of Defence that it was the Aussie equivilant of the American OICW. With this said any comparisons between the 2 are somewhat irrelevant.

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Nichevo RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? SG 6/22/2006 1:17:42 AM

Okay...shall I just go away? I wasn't aware that I had originated the "claims" about MS' cyclic rate. I admit, from what I saw and read, that I thought it was the point of the system. Certainly in the videos (which I did not create) it looked like that was a big feature. But if you are presenting it as just a simplification of the gun's action, obviating the need to reload and, I imagine, reducing jams, well then, great. Good on ya. Makes sense. (Actually I had had the idea for that in a pistol, with a replaceable barrel-magazine about 3/4 full of appx. quarter-sized discs pained one side with electrically fired propellant, a few years back for a science fiction novel I was writing. But that's just talk and I concede your boffins all the credit.) And if you're satisfied with the bloop ballistics and the 'Strine equivalent of Kentucky windage that's fine too. However, from the 'operator selected' jazz I had the idea that something was settable.

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gf0012-aust RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? 6/22/2006 1:20:21 AM

"I have had a fiddle with a mockup... " I've handled the first mockup circa 2000-2001 which was very much a more conventional looking weapon. at the end of 2001 I was tied up with a ballistics programme and had to deal with DSTO on various issues, access to test and measurement facilities etc... at that point they had decided to go to the bullpup hybrid and its basically stayed that shape. I did prefer the other one though - even though it was slightly bigger and bulked up. I'd hate to be the poor sap trying to breach the zone where the area denial weapons were registered - you'd definitely want to be calling in something with longer reach, or risk being turned into a collander.

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gf0012-aust RE:Ohhhhhh I see- a personal combat weapon? - Nichevo 6/22/2006 1:47:15 AM

"However, from the 'operator selected' jazz I had the idea that something was settable." that was probably my comment - but it was related to the multi barrel weapon where each barrel could be loaded with specific munitions. the discharge/firing sequence could then be set via the console. on a single barrel weapon you can just mix the load per barrel - but you can't change which rounds come out as its linear. ie an electronic equiv to preloading tracers etc...

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AMTP10E RE:Oh please - a C I W S 6/22/2006 3:12:44 AM

There are others, but they haven't hit the public domain yet. Taepodong 2 and Skaval killing...

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