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Subject: The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley
tjkhan    1/25/2006 1:40:43 PM
Defence in shambles: Beazley
25jan06

OUTGOING defence minister Robert Hill had left the portfolio in a shambles, with overseas troop commitments taking greater priority than domestic security, Labor said today.

Opposition leader Kim Beazley said the Government had moved away from its basic obligation to defend the nation, neglecting equipment programs and lacking in coherence and strategy.

"It's in a shambles," Mr Beazley told ABC Radio today.

"Your primary obligation is to defend your nation.

"You can't foretell the future, circumstances can arise when you're under threat (and) you must be able to defend your nation."

Instead, the Government had mad its global defence alliances a priority, particularly with the US, Mr Beazley, himself a former defence minister, said.

"In two years' time you're going to be talking all about air defence in this country because they are not succeeding in replacing our F-111s and F/A-18s ... but they don't care," he said.

"Why? Because that's defending Australia and what they care about is whether or not we've got troops that we can slot into a commitment somewhere else in the rest of the world."

Mr Beazley called for a revival of the coastguard debate.

"We have got the waters to the north of us being pillaged, people are landing on our coast willy nilly but because Kim Beazley suggested a coastguard they won't do the obvious thing and put it in place to deal with it."


 
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southern cross    RE:The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley   1/25/2006 3:36:15 PM
" "It's in a shambles," Mr Beazley told ABC Radio today. " Sounds familiar, so does former defence minister Kim Beazley " "In two years' time you're going to be talking all about air defence in this country because they are not succeeding in replacing our F-111s and F/A-18s ... but they don't care," he said. " So tell us Kim, exactly how much does the F-111 contribute to the air defence of this country? " "Why? Because that's defending Australia and what they care about is whether or not we've got troops that we can slot into a commitment somewhere else in the rest of the world." " Yes because all our troops must be here in case of an unexpected yellow invasion, right mr opposition leader? " Mr Beazley called for a revival of the coastguard debate. " A CG? no Kim no. He's really grasping at straws.
 
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Yimmy    RE:The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley   1/25/2006 6:57:17 PM
"So tell us Kim, exactly how much does the F-111 contribute to the air defence of this country?" I have to disagree with you there, your F111's are of greater long term importance to Australias air defence than your F18's. Destroying enemy aircraft on the ground is vastly superior to destroying them in the air.
 
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Weasel    RE:The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley   1/25/2006 8:44:21 PM
You know, We have, here, already talked about an Oz airforce capability gap appearing if and when the JSF gets pushed back further and further. Its already at the stage where people are sweating bullets because of the cost overuns and the delay to boot. So, if a politician who was a former Defence minister voices a similar opinion, I shouldn't be surprised. Yes the guy is a politician, but like all politicians he thinks he can serve Australia (ye gods, I just stuck up for politicians) and I don't think he is a total idiot. Something is going on within Defense (sorry ) Defence that is seriously wrong. I'm not sure from this vantage point what it is (is it political or is it systemic)... People have said its the DMO, etc, etc. But some big flags have been raised that I would like to look closer at, if I ever get a chance; -- Seasprites (why? I can't see a need that could not have been fulfilled more easily by another platform) -- ADI (commercial practices) -- Metal Storm (dito) -- JSF procurement(methodology) On the whole Oz defense (from the outside) looks like it is getting a shot in the arm, but I think there have been wasteful processes in the mix and I would imagine people in the industry and the public are (or should be) concerned. Cheers W
 
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DropBear    RE:The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley   1/25/2006 8:55:07 PM
So tell us Kim, exactly how much does the F-111 contribute to the air defence of this country? Alot more than you obviously realise.
 
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DropBear    Weasel   1/25/2006 9:00:13 PM
The SeaSprogs were going to be used on an "Offshore Patrol Combatant" jointly built with the Malaysians. they pulled out and the project bought the farm so to speak. However, the Kaman Sprogs still got selected and the idea was that they could be used on the Anzacs. We are to arm them with the Penguin missile, which surprise surprise can be fired by SeaHawks. Our S-Hawks don't use them but as we already have 16 S-Hawks that have done stirling work, one would think that buying another dozen and arming them with Penguin would be ideal. Apparently Defence and the RAN don't agree with the Bear. ;)
 
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southern cross    RE:Weasel   1/25/2006 9:05:20 PM
" Apparently Defence and the RAN don't agree with the Bear. ;) " Dont think that the navy likes the sprites any more than you. The whole SSS program has been one huge needless ferk up, i should think som heads have rolled over it.
 
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southern cross    RE:The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley   1/25/2006 9:07:59 PM
" "We have got the waters to the north of us being pillaged, people are landing on our coast willy nilly but because Kim Beazley suggested a coastguard they won't do the obvious thing and put it in place to deal with it." " Yes Kim, we are not getting a CG because you suggested it. It has nothing to do with the fact that all those duties are already being carried out and that a CG would just divert resources from services already patrolling and policing our waters, or that a CG would just complicate matters between the navy, customs, coastwatch, and state police even further. And it could not be anyting to do with the problems faced by upstarting a large, and totally needless, maritime service. Kim should really pull his head in.
 
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Aussie Digger    RE:The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley   1/26/2006 3:23:30 AM
Kim is proving himself to be a ferging Goose with statements like this? The RAAF's doing nothing to replace it's Air defence capability? Labor friggin publicly supported the JSF program. Obviously he's forgotten about that. His CG idea is absolute rubbish. No extra funding, no extra platforms, staff, resources, powers or anything. Existing assets, resources and staff will be stripped from existing areas that are doing a good (but not one that couldn't be improved) job already. I have not heard one single reason how a CG would improve our maritime response and surveillance capability... Defence may be in a shambles, but it can only get worse should Beazley get into power with comments and apparent knowledge like this...
 
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Aussie Digger    RE:The Australian: Defence in shambles: Beazley   1/26/2006 3:26:50 AM
"Your primary obligation is to defend your nation". From who? Who could AND would attack us? Does Beazley have any idea of the extent of the forces we have deployed? It's ferk all compared to the early days of Timor, the PMG, and the Oil for food monitoring program... I
 
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