HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM

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gf0012-aust RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 9:46:12 PM

"Remember John Howards plan that troubled our northern neighbours about pre-emptive strikes on terrorist cells and the notion people have of Oz being the deputy-sherrif of the USA in the Pacific." it's also pertinent to remember that Howard has a short flight of F-111's revved up and on standby to visit Jakarta if ET had gone sour. Ditto with the subs. lurking off various bits of the republik. so as an example of intent to prosecute if necessary - then he's got the niagra falls to try it on. I think whats interesting is that if you look at Lab as opposed to a Lib approach. Lab would have committed to a defence of australia mentality - I'm pretty confident that a retro Howard would take it up to the enemy. as much as Johnny is a monarchist, I think he'd be leaning far more in bringing back the troops. I doubt that he would have waited till aussie troops were well on their way to Burma before managing to get them back. I'd argue that he would have pulled them back well before Churchill pulled a fast one.

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fall out RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 9:56:46 PM

"Well any invaders would be declared illegal immigrant and lock in detention until their applications are processed." - HAHAHAH!! that's a good 1!! haha

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fall out RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 9:59:21 PM

"it's also pertinent to remember that Howard has a short flight of F-111's revved up and on standby to visit Jakarta if ET had gone sour. Ditto with the subs. lurking off various bits of the republik." - what do you think Lab would have done then in the same situation? i know they backed down in 75 but the Lib's may(!!) have done the same thing...just interested...

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Weasel RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 10:04:42 PM

well, you guys know him better then me. (johnny that is). But I gave it a shot. I don't think it is fair to transpose the political environment of 2005 onto WW2. I thought we were transposing the personalities. In that case, England would be the key Australian ally and not the USA. As such Australia would look to the UK first and that is why I focused on Johnny's monarchist/loyalist outlook. I don't even know if I had my timelines correct and whether drawing the 7th Div back to Australia really made any difference to the Kokoda campaign. I think Australia did pretty well with curtin as it stands. One thing I have learnt is a I like nick naming "polies", "little johnny" and "curious george"... I like it.... pretty hard to come up with something for Vladamir though.... never actually referred to rumsfeld as "rummy" though...too close to home hahahaha

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gf0012-aust RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 10:13:21 PM

" I like it.... pretty hard to come up with something for Vladamir though.... " ney slang dictates that it rhyme... so, how about "rootin tootin" ? ;)

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Weasel RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 10:24:39 PM

rootin tootin... then you extrapolate that to roy rogers, right? So THAT is why he and curious get along so well... kind of like yanks, tanks, septic tanks, and then seppos, eh GF? ;)

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gf0012-aust RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 10:36:17 PM

"rootin tootin... then you extrapolate that to roy rogers, right? So THAT is why he and curious get along so well... kind of like yanks, tanks, septic tanks, and then seppos, eh GF? ;) " mate you're a fast learner... the problem with c0ckney slang is that some take it literally. I've had a few conservative yank associates amp up really quickly at the "sepo" expression - they took it literally. kind of takes the fun out of lazy slang when you have to interpret all the time... ;)

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Weasel RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/27/2005 10:46:45 PM

No, I'm not a fast learner... there are a million and one people smarter then me and thats just in one state. but thanks anyway I'm signing off cheers

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AussieEngineer RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/28/2005 6:37:35 AM

I don't think any modern Australian PM either side of the house would have let cow tow to GB at the cost of Australia. Attitudes toward our independence from Britain are far stronger today. JH would probably be very commited to fighting the Germany and Italy but I think he would have recognised the threat posed by Japan earlier than either Menzies or Curtin.

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bigfella RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM 10/28/2005 1:35:45 PM

"I think he would have recognised the threat posed by Japan earlier than either Menzies or Curtin." - AussieEng Why do you think this AE? Given that Howard places himself very much in the Menzies mold I don't see why he would have viewed the world much differently. The British dramatically underestimated the Japanese. Part of this was arrogance & racism, part was wishful thinking, as Britain really couldn't afford to defend its Empire, but didn't want to admit it. Recieved wisdom in Australia was even worse and for much the same reasons. Our defence policy was basically that Mother England would save us. if you think I'm kidding, keep in mind that officers with the experience of Blamey actually quit (he became police commish in Victoria) because the pay was so ty & the army so crappy. The navy was not much better, and I'm not sure what passed for an Airforce. I can't see any reason why JH circa 1939 would see it any differently than anyone else. I suspect he would have done the same as Menzies - send the AIF to Africa & head off to London himself. He probably wouldn't have pissed off Churchill by quietly angling for a seat in the British parliament, but no Australian PM has been half so self important as menzies. The real question is would a JH circa 1941/2 stand up to Churchill & basically threaten to take Australia out of the British sphere in order to get out reoops home? I'm not sure that Menzies would have, neither am I sure JH 1941 version would have. The conservative Australian middle class of the time clung desperately to its 'Britishness'. Given that Howard still does (if somewhat quietly) even now, I can't be sure he would have stood up then. Of course, this is the problem with 'what ifs' like this. You can't transpose someone from now back 60 years, it just doesn't work. Oh, as for the 'pre-emptive strike' stuff that someone else raised, my question is 'What with?'. Even if you gathered every single active Australian unit on air, sea & land in early 1942 it wouldn't have made much difference. We might have held the bottom of the Malay Penn. (maybe), but striking something? spare me!!

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