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Subject: HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM
DropBear    10/27/2005 8:55:18 AM

It is the dark days of World War 2 and the incumbent Government is lead by PM John Howard and all the representative Ministers/portfolios (some have since disbanded/merged etc) are held by their modern day Conservative Coalition equivalents.

What are your thoughts on how Australia would have responded to the WW2 effort with the current Parliamentarians in control?

P.S. No personal slagging over Left/Right. Just constructively argue your position

Thoughts...
 
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fall out    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 9:24:13 AM
Impossible to tell as pollies and soceity in general were VERY different back then, VERY different attitudes, so i suppose it would be a different ride that's for sure with little faggot in charge... ;)
 
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DropBear    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 10:04:53 AM
Good to see you up to your old tricks of insulting the PM. Anyway, I want to know what people would think of Howard, Hill, Costello etc and how they would have prosecuted the war. Would Howard have increased defence spending moreso than Curtain? Would Hill have made a better DefMin etc etc etc. Not talking about the attitudes of society, I'm talking about transposing current Government into WW2 scenario. Thoughts...
 
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fall out    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 10:27:04 AM
yeah i realise but the attitudes of society dictate that of the attitude of pollies so... as 4 what they would do i have no f'ing clue, just too hard to know, esp coz im tired and it's late... ;)
 
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DropBear    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 10:29:31 AM
No excuses Mildy. Suck it up marine! P.S. Check ya email ya Lefty doofus. ;)
 
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SSGT Kingston    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 12:43:18 PM
John Howard in WW2? well all i ask for is for him to have the guts to tell Churchill to get ferked when he wanted to keep our divisions in 1942. Otherwise, aslong as he dosent lose, im all for it.
 
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bigfella    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 1:12:11 PM
Sorry DB, this is VERY silly. it simply isn't possible to make that sort of transposition. All I would say is that Australia got its greatest ever PM during WW2 in John Curtain. He gave his life for Australia as surely as any soldier. The sort od crass opportunism, rampant ideology and lack of respect for the rule of law that pass for politics in Australia at the moment disgrace the memory of men like Curtain. There have been few enough politicians in Australian history fit to fill his shoes, I don't see any at the moment.
 
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sorebigtoe    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 6:41:57 PM
Well any invaders would be declared illegal immigrant and lock in detention until their applications are processed.
 
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DropBear    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 8:18:05 PM
Sorry DB, this is VERY silly. it simply isn't possible to make that sort of transposition. Hmph. No imagination you lot. ;(
 
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Weasel    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 9:03:32 PM
OK DB, I'll play; I think with Johnny being so pro queeny that Churchill would have found him a push over. He would have kept your (correct me if I've got the wrong corps or division) 7th Division in North Africa. Japan would have captured Port Moresby as a result from over land. That would have negated the need for an amphib invasion force and hence Coral Sea wouldn't have happened. South Pacific command would then probably attempt to build up more troop reserves at Fiji, or Australia. (debatable) Australian public would probably have lost confidence in government once Port Moresby fell and howled bloody murder to bring your troops back from Norht Africa. I can't really develop it further than that. But I think because of his undue influence from foreign powers (notably mother england) Johnny would make some serious gaffs, which would either finish his government and/or make it very difficult for Australia to get their chestnuts out of the fire. Churchill didn't give a flying frag about Australia (as he publicly demanded that Australian troops stay in North Africa at the demise of Australia)when the Japs were sweeping across the SE Asian Archipeligo and Johnny would have followed his lead. To give him his due I think he would have realized his mistake, but by then it would be too late. How's that? This is my first alternative history attempt... WOFTAM, but I can't sleep.
 
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DropBear    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 9:27:52 PM
Don't you think Howard is pro-USA enough that had he been PM then, he would have sided with the American Admin more and thumbed his nose at Churchill? Perhaps we would have pulled more forces out of the European theatre (Bomber/Coastal Command forces etc)and placed them into Pacific. Peter Costello is a Republican, so he wouldn't be listening to Churchill. Both stubborn minds. I'm not sure how Sen. Hill swings, but he seems publicly to have a cool head for defence. I reckon PNG/Moresby wouldn't fall, rather the Oz AIF would launch a pre-emptive strike on Japanese territory. Remember John Howards plan that troubled our northern neighbours about pre-emptive strikes on terrorist cells and the notion people have of Oz being the deputy-sherrif of the USA in the Pacific. I think the current Government would prosecute the war markedly different from how history shows us it was done then. Not talking about hindsight, merely the leadership/ideological differences. Thoughts...
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 9:46:12 PM
"Remember John Howards plan that troubled our northern neighbours about pre-emptive strikes on terrorist cells and the notion people have of Oz being the deputy-sherrif of the USA in the Pacific." it's also pertinent to remember that Howard has a short flight of F-111's revved up and on standby to visit Jakarta if ET had gone sour. Ditto with the subs. lurking off various bits of the republik. so as an example of intent to prosecute if necessary - then he's got the niagra falls to try it on. I think whats interesting is that if you look at Lab as opposed to a Lib approach. Lab would have committed to a defence of australia mentality - I'm pretty confident that a retro Howard would take it up to the enemy. as much as Johnny is a monarchist, I think he'd be leaning far more in bringing back the troops. I doubt that he would have waited till aussie troops were well on their way to Burma before managing to get them back. I'd argue that he would have pulled them back well before Churchill pulled a fast one.
 
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fall out    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 9:56:46 PM
"Well any invaders would be declared illegal immigrant and lock in detention until their applications are processed." - HAHAHAH!! that's a good 1!! haha
 
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fall out    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 9:59:21 PM
"it's also pertinent to remember that Howard has a short flight of F-111's revved up and on standby to visit Jakarta if ET had gone sour. Ditto with the subs. lurking off various bits of the republik." - what do you think Lab would have done then in the same situation? i know they backed down in 75 but the Lib's may(!!) have done the same thing...just interested...
 
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Weasel    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 10:04:42 PM
well, you guys know him better then me. (johnny that is). But I gave it a shot. I don't think it is fair to transpose the political environment of 2005 onto WW2. I thought we were transposing the personalities. In that case, England would be the key Australian ally and not the USA. As such Australia would look to the UK first and that is why I focused on Johnny's monarchist/loyalist outlook. I don't even know if I had my timelines correct and whether drawing the 7th Div back to Australia really made any difference to the Kokoda campaign. I think Australia did pretty well with curtin as it stands. One thing I have learnt is a I like nick naming "polies", "little johnny" and "curious george"... I like it.... pretty hard to come up with something for Vladamir though.... never actually referred to rumsfeld as "rummy" though...too close to home hahahaha
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:HYPOTHETICAL: 1939 - 1945, John Howard wartime PM   10/27/2005 10:13:21 PM
" I like it.... pretty hard to come up with something for Vladamir though.... " ney slang dictates that it rhyme... so, how about "rootin tootin" ? ;)
 
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