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Subject: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era
DropBear    9/24/2005 9:26:57 PM

Another world famous DB hypothetical:

We have HMAS Melbourne (the carrier) in service in 2005. Her hull and mechanicals are as new as a modern refurb.

The A-4 Scooters are capable of two Asraam plus Mavericks and LGB's.

Seahawk/SeaSprites have replaced the SeaKing in all helo roles.

The S-2 Grey Grumblies are modernised (turboprops) and have an ELINT role with a limited AWACS L-Band tophat configuration.

The escort/plane guard role is split between existing FFG/Anzac fleets.

HMAS Melbourne has similar dimmensions/limitations as before with only modernised machinery and weapons/radar fit.

Defences consist of RIM-116 RAM and Phalanx CIWS.

The boat has an AEGIS system installed with future mods to look into SM-3 etc.

Budget and crewing aside...

What could a boat with these capabilities bring to the modern Oz Navy and Australia?
 
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EW3    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era   9/24/2005 10:20:00 PM
Would add a lot, but that seems too obvious an answer.
 
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DropBear    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era   9/24/2005 10:49:56 PM
Could Asraam firing Scooters with a floating gas pad be enough to keep a dozen non-BVR Indonesian F-16's in check?
 
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gf0012-aust    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era   9/24/2005 11:15:36 PM
Add a quad tomahwk launcher and a VLS "all up" slab and it's even better..
 
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DropBear    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era   9/24/2005 11:18:51 PM
But is it do-able? Considering we are buying two large amphibs, could a Melbourne contribute in its own way in the current era?
 
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EW3    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/24/2005 11:29:51 PM
You are confounding the question. I mean you are keeping A-4s, yet are worried about the cost with 2 amphibs. Assume an updated Melbourne with SeaSparrows and CIWS and Harriers. At least that is the way I'd look at it. See what I mean?
 
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DropBear    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/24/2005 11:38:53 PM
Nope! Not confounding anything. I was making an example of how we can afford two amphibs in this day and age, so could we have afforded Melby. No past, current corporate knowledge of Harrier ops in RAN/RAAF/RNZAF so I'm sticking with Scooters if you don't mind. Now, what benefit (if any) would a modernised Melbourne have, say, on the Afghanistan theatre of ops. How about anti-piracy ops in the Straits between Malaysia and Indon etc? How useful would a Scooter armed with Asraams be? See Skipper, DB still has his marbles. ;)
 
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EW3    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/24/2005 11:45:27 PM
I leave to you aussies to help DB get his marbles in one place. My impression is that it is an apples and kiwi argument. But then again I don't speak Australian.
 
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DropBear    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/24/2005 11:51:51 PM
Huh??? Listen Skipper, you are either with us or against us, but there is no middle ground. Now, would you like Oz to contribute a 24,000 odd tonne carrier armed with Scooters, Grumblies, SeaHawks etc with your USN CBG's in coalition forces or not? The choice is yours. We start bombing in three minutes.
 
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EW3    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/24/2005 11:57:19 PM
I surrender! But would prefer Oz to load up with 3 90Kton carriers. Or as my instincts say, just get 4 more Collins. Better bang for the buck.
 
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DropBear    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/24/2005 11:59:44 PM
Ah yes. Our $300bn annual defence budget. Seriously, Are you getting wet with anticipation over the thought of crazy Ozniks driving rings around your USN bumpkin F-18's with our Asraam firing Scooters? ;) Tally ho!!! P.S. four more Collins? How about my sqn of Bones'?
 
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DropBear    Skipper   9/25/2005 12:02:47 AM
Have you seen this before? link ;)
 
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EW3    RE:US old folks   9/25/2005 12:12:27 AM
So many things wrong with that picure ;) My DE/FF was part of ASW Group 4. The carrier was the USS Intrepid. While off Murmansk Russia, we had 4 of those sweet A-4s to protect us. I've seen an A-4 from a lot closer than I'd like to remember, a wingtip between the bridge and the ASROC launcher.
 
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gf0012-aust    Scooters and Melbourne   9/25/2005 12:12:43 AM
The thing that attracts me to this is the fact that we could possibly run an ANZAC Scooter component. Or - the Kiwis could fund the Scooters and we could drop the FAA fixed wingers and focus on modifying the grumblies.Are the SeaHawks able to fold up on the elevators though? In practical terms - that ship would be a fuel spongue - you'd need to replace the guts of it to be efficient. At that point its cheaper to go with an LHA.
 
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DropBear    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/25/2005 12:19:21 AM
I leave to you aussies to help DB get his marbles in one place. The thing that attracts me to this is the fact that we could possibly run an ANZAC Scooter component. Or - the Kiwis could fund the Scooters and we could drop the FAA fixed wingers and focus on modifying the grumblies.Are the SeaHawks able to fold up on the elevators though? You were saying EW3??? ;)
 
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southern cross    RE: CARRIER FORCE 2005 - HMAS Melbourne in the modern era DB   9/25/2005 12:20:05 AM
>>>Now, what benefit (if any) would a modernised Melbourne have, say, on the Afghanistan theatre of ops.<<< Unless you can put her on wheels her then I would say not much ;) I would think She could have softened the Iraqi coast in 2003, but then again the RN didn't even use their carriers in a fixed wing role. They just loaded them up with choppers and marines. She would have been good in the '99 Timor scenario, Keep away those pesky indo's, recon over the jungle, scare the militia into death or submission. Probably many instnces around the pacific where a flat top off shore and jets flying overhead would have come in handy. I would think that at least a 15x frigate/destroyer and 8x collins navy would be needed, is that the case or is it everything we have now + Melbourne? I would like us to have kept the capability, but would habitability have been improved, because I've heard that only the medical facilities had air con leaving the crew to roast all day under the steel deck. How would the ship be after 25 extra years of flying and sailing though? From what I have read people back in 82 were saying she was run down and needed immediate replacing. Hypothetically of course, it might just be cheaper to buy a new ship. Or tell the Iron woman we want our Vince!
 
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