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Subject: XM-109 25mm Sniper Rifle
    8/15/2004 10:03:21 PM

For some long-range sniper missions, a .50 caliber (12.7mm) round just isn?t big enough. The Barrett company, which pioneered the development of the modern .50 caliber sniper rifle, has now built a 25mm sniper rifle (although shoulder cannon may be a more precise term), the XM109. Ten prototype weapons are being made available for testing this month. Designed to destroy light armor, the XM109 is a semi-automatic 25mm rifle that has a 17.6 inch long barrel and an overall length of 46 inches. It weighs in at 46 pounds and has a 5 round magazine. In comparison, the Barrett M107 .50 caliber sniper rifle in general use today has a 29 inch barrel, overall length of 57 inches, and weighs in at a mere 32 pounds, with a magazine capacity of 10 rounds. 

A spiked bipod is included to steady the XM109 for firing and it has a standard M1319 accessory rail for scopes and other accessories. Barrett will either sell a complete rifle or supply upgrade kits to convert the M107 .50 sniper rifle over to the 25mm configuration, replacing the bolt, upper receiver, and magazine. 

To complement this ?rifle? is a computerized sight called the BORS (Barrett Optical Ranging Sighting System). BORS is specifically designed for long-range shooting at 1,000 meters and longer distances, measuring and compensating for air pressure, temperature, and the angle of the weapon in relation to the target. Precisely compensating for all these factors and successfully hitting the target on the first shot is possible, but difficult. BORS is designed to take all the sweat-math work out of first-round shots, leaving the operator with simply dialing in the distance to target, selecting the ammunition type, and putting the cross-hairs on the target. Future versions of BORS will incorporate a rangefinder, and night vision capability.

Effective distance armor piercing ?lethality? for the rifle is listed at 2000 meters. The 25mm round is derivative design from the AH-64 Apache helicopter?s M789 high-explosive dual purpose (good against armor and personnel) 30mm ammunition and will penetrate at least 50 millimeters of armor plating, making it capable of destroying light armored vehicles, SCUD launchers, and other equipment. According to the ammunition manufacturer, the 25mm round is 2.5 times more effective at destroying targets than a .50 caliber armor-piercing round. At some point the system will also be integrated to use 25mm airburst ammunition designed for the OCWS. 

One drawback to the weapon is the heavy recoil of the round. Barrett is working on reducing the recoil. Finally, a company slide describes the weapon as a ?payload rifle? and also alludes to the ability to remove the muzzle break and replace it with a sound suppressor. ? Doug Mohney
 
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Bigbro    RE:XM-109 25mm Sniper Rifle   8/15/2004 10:46:07 PM
i want one. Don't what I would do with it, but I want one.
 
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PaulG    rifle vs. cannon   8/16/2004 2:50:26 AM
The accompanying text describes this gun as a rifle but then notes in parenthesis that "shoulder cannon" may be a more precise term. What, technically, is the difference between a rifle (or MG) and cannon? Is it caliber alone? Why is a 50 cal. MG called a MG and a 20mm Vulcan called a cannon? Thanks...
 
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debtslayer    RE:rifle vs. cannon   8/16/2004 10:41:15 AM
To PaulG From my understanding of the subject, a rifle normally fires a solid slug and a cannon normally fires a shell type projectile. The DSHK 12.7mm was the previous dividing line between rifle and cannon (with "experts" split as to what category it fell into). To Bigbro You want one? Go to the nearest antique firearms dealer and ask him to look for a Lahti L-39 20mm cannon. These were shoulder fired Finnish anti-tank rifles the Finnish Army ordered in the late 30's. The German Army picked up some and used them, along with the Solothurn guns, for short range anti-tank defense early in the war. Seem to remember a 'Firepower' magazine article on one from the mid-80's gave the following characteristics: range and velocity of shell similar to 5.56mm round, penetration of 20mm armor-piercing incendiary round at an upstate NY quarry was 13 inches of granite rock, weapon had semi-auto action with a hand crank to work the bolt after loading. Guess the point I'm trying to make is that it sounds like Barret just reinvented the wheel.
 
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scholar    RE:rifle vs. cannon   8/16/2004 11:39:32 AM
Cannons fire shells. Those have explosives inside them. Cannons used to fire solid ball, too (like in the 18th century), and at the time I think cannon referred to its size or perhaps the fact that it couldn't be carried. Recently cannons have gone back to firing solid projectiles, only now they're called "kinetic energy devices." Usually they're rods of steel. See what I've learned at the SP?
 
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scholar    Would this work...   8/16/2004 11:39:57 AM
on the bloody SUVs that clog the roads of my city?
 
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Spent Case    RE:rifle vs. cannon   8/16/2004 12:28:35 PM
A rough line between rifle/machine gun and cannon is 15mm. 15mm and larger would be a cannon. SC-
 
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Bigbro    RE:rifle vs. cannon debtslayer   8/16/2004 10:35:57 PM
"Guess the point I'm trying to make is that it sounds like Barret just reinvented the wheel" it seems to me that many of the AFV's are now armored like the early tanks. It worked then it should work now. Lahti L-39? would it fit in my gun safe?
 
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PaulG    RE:rifle vs. cannon   8/17/2004 3:11:06 AM
Thanks for the responses. Scholar, I guess if I had my druthers, I'd rather be hit by a slug than a kinetic energy device! Does the venerable 20mm Vulcan really fire explosive shells? I always thought it used solid lead to punch holes in enemy aircraft. Also, I understand the 30mm cannon on the A-10 fires solid armor piercing rounds. That would make it a 30mm MG by the explosive shell definition.
 
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doggtag    RE:XM-109 25mm Sniper Rifle   8/17/2004 8:11:38 AM
The current issue of Popular Mechanics (Sept 2004), on pages 82-89, features an article about new SF weapons, including the new XM-8 assault rifle/carbine weapon system and the XM-109. To further the previous threads' debating of solid rounds vs shells discerning between rifle and cannon... its really a misnomer: way back years ago, in the days of fighting sail, there were scores of weapons of various length and pound of shot. At some point, the "cannon" was found, out of all the designs, to afford the best weight of shot/range combination, and the name cannon has since stuck for pretty much any heavy ordnance. And most of us are familiar with the fact that "rifle" was in relation to the grooving of the inside of gun barrels: it first was straight lines/grooves designed to collect powder fouling, but some ingenious person(s) figured out that if the grooves were spiralled, they would impart a stabilizing spin on the ammo, enhancing range and accuracy. Rifle vs cannon is kind of like gun vs howitzer. It doesn't really say much, because technically, with the accuracy of current AFV main armaments, when firing non-exploding ammo the gun technically is a rifle. Just as if it fires a cannister or flechette round, technically you could say you have a 105mm shotgun. And often, in gunsmith circles, the big bore hanguns (.357 and greater) are often referred to as "hand cannons", especially the big .500 range weapons. But the only "explosive" effect of the ammo is its "mushrooming" expansion. And the 20mm Vulcan and GAU-8 weapons have both solid AP (or API) and explosive rounds at their disposal, a full family of NATO-standard ammo (the GAU-8 in A-10s normally is configured with a mix of AP and HE ammo, normally repeating in groups of every 5 rounds). The Russians do have their 12.7mm and 14.5mm heavy MGs which do feature a small explosive round, but of limited punch. A more favorable course is the pursuit of "frangible" ammo, which basically fragments tremendously after impact, without the need of fuzing or explosives for the 12.7mm. Nammo Raufoss AS makes a line of MP Multi Purpose ammo, varying in operation. Some have an explosive, others just rely on fragmentation. The most impressive frangible rounds are the 12.7mm, 20mm, and 27mm. link And the big Barret rifle is designed to fire the same fuzed ammo for the XM307 OCSW Objective Crew Served Weapon..
 
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johnboy    when you boys are done fantasizing...   8/17/2004 9:36:21 AM
... you can wake up and realize that this is a dumb idea. DUMB. Do any of you remember this little thing called an "anti-tank rifle?" Well, if you ever wondered what one would look like today, you are looking at one. Of course, all those nifty modern lightweight materials can't make this thing any handier or more useful. The entire concept is OBSOLETE. It has been OBSOLETE for six decades! This is like the gun nut's version of the Hummer. Maybe if you guys got a real hummer, you would see what a stupid idea this is. It's pathetic! I recall that the Germans developed a 20mm anti-tank rifle. That was abandoned in favor of AT systems like the panzerfaust and panzerschrek. Why? Um, they were more effective and more flexible. The Soviets had a 14.5mm anti-tank rifle that was almost worthless against armor; the round is with us today in the KPV heavy machinegun/light cannon. Get real.
 
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