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Subject: Joint Greek/Turkish Aegean Oil Venture.
2 Eagle    1/10/2008 1:54:50 PM
Consider the benefits, both political, economical and potentially military of these two countries putting aside their differences and developing the known oil deposits in the Aegean. Questions: 1) How would the oil revenues change the current status quo? 2) Would a union of Turkey and Greece produce a regional superpower, with the oil revenues? 3) Would both countires agree to share the revenues?
 
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2 Eagle    Unfortunate   1/15/2008 10:28:59 AM

If you look at the demographics of Turkey you will see that it is an overwhelmingly young country (in terms of age of population). Given Kane's comments on young peoples attitude towards Greece, the chances of these countries becoming federated are less that a snowballs' in Hell.

It is unfortunate that people cannot see past their own emotions. Look at what oil money has done for the Arabs. Think what it could do for those two countries. Well, you can bring a horse to water, as the saying goes, but you cannot make him drink.
As an aside...I read where the Greeks are supporting Turkish entry into the EU. Is this an unfriendly act? I also read where they sent rescue units to Turkey during the earthquake...same thing?
 
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kane       1/15/2008 11:20:51 AM



If you look at the demographics of Turkey you will see that it is an overwhelmingly young country (in terms of age of population). Given Kane's comments on young peoples attitude towards Greece, the chances of these countries becoming federated are less that a snowballs' in Hell.


It is unfortunate that people cannot see past their own emotions. Look at what oil money has done for the Arabs. Think what it could do for those two countries. Well, you can bring a horse to water, as the saying goes, but you cannot make him drink.
As an aside...I read where the Greeks are supporting Turkish entry into the EU. Is this an unfriendly act? I also read where they sent rescue units to Turkey during the earthquake...same thing?

I don't think they want the Eu thing but yes both countries helped each other during earthquakes.The thinig is, both countries are wrking hard to get along well.....actually we do get along well and there is no hatred propogandas.But whenever people read those history books they hate Greeks :)
Thats why a lot of people do not like Greeks in here...history

 
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Heorot       1/15/2008 2:16:54 PM



If you look at the demographics of Turkey you will see that it is an overwhelmingly young country (in terms of age of population). Given Kane's comments on young peoples attitude towards Greece, the chances of these countries becoming federated are less that a snowballs' in Hell.


It is unfortunate that people cannot see past their own emotions. Look at what oil money has done for the Arabs. Think what it could do for those two countries. Well, you can bring a horse to water, as the saying goes, but you cannot make him drink.
As an aside...I read where the Greeks are supporting Turkish entry into the EU. Is this an unfriendly act? I also read where they sent rescue units to Turkey during the earthquake...same thing?

Eagle,

I have a home in Turkey in one of the more Westernised regions. Even there, talk to any Turk of whatever age about Greece & the Greeks and what you get is animosity and distrust. For Turks, the old saying "beware Greeks bearing gifts" is as valid today as it has ever been.

 
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2 Eagle       1/16/2008 1:33:42 PM







If you look at the demographics of Turkey you will see that it is an overwhelmingly young country (in terms of age of population). Given Kane's comments on young peoples attitude towards Greece, the chances of these countries becoming federated are less that a snowballs' in Hell.




It is unfortunate that people cannot see past their own emotions. Look at what oil money has done for the Arabs. Think what it could do for those two countries. Well, you can bring a horse to water, as the saying goes, but you cannot make him drink.
As an aside...I read where the Greeks are supporting Turkish entry into the EU. Is this an unfriendly act? I also read where they sent rescue units to Turkey during the earthquake...same thing?



Eagle,

I have a home in Turkey in one of the more Westernised regions. Even there, talk to any Turk of whatever age about Greece & the Greeks and what you get is animosity and distrust. For Turks, the old saying "beware Greeks bearing gifts" is as valid today as it has ever been.


Hereot,
The Trojan Horse was given to the Trojans, not the Turks, who were still wandering the Steppes at the time. I guess you mean the treachery involved...if that is even a proper word for it. It was war and they had been there for ten years already...hey it was time to go home. Tell me the Turks would have done it differently...if they thought about it. Anyway, I don't know why the Turks have so much animosity towards the Greeks. It was the Greeks, amomg others, who lived under very harsh Turkish rule for 400 years, not the Turks. If anyone should be angry, it's them.
 
 
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Heorot    Eagle   1/17/2008 7:42:56 PM
The current animosity dates back to the Greco-Turkish Way of 1919-1922 where Greece, supported by France and Britain, tried to land grab prosperous parts of Turkey. The war was hard and bitter and many died before Turkish forces led by Kemal Ataturk managed to force them out.

The end result was of Greeks living in Turkey being expelled to Greece and vice versa. The descendents of these displaced persons are still filled with hatred to the opposite side. Only 6 kilometers from my house there is a ghost village. The Greek population was expelled after the war and the Turkish immigrants from Greece refused to use the houses and built their own village next to them. 80 years later and they are still empty.

The Wiki entry for this war is very good. You should read it.

ht*p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919-1922)


 
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kane       1/18/2008 5:14:07 AM
Yeah what Greeks did during the war is the reason of all this hatred with the support of western powers.Howewer as a Turkish I doN't find what Greeks did abnormal...thats what anyone would do when they get the chance.
And when we look at history it's the Greeks who have been sacked from all these lands....but that shouldn't be abnormal too because at that time strong was conquering weak.
Thats the law of the world

 
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Pars    Balkan Pact   1/18/2008 6:49:56 AM
Kane was referring to Balkan Pact of 30's which was founded by Ataturk and Venizelos.
Main objective of the Pact was to stop Russian, Italian and Bulgarian agressions towards ther Balkan nations. Members were Turkey, Greece, Romania and Yugoslavia. After both Venizelos and Ataturk died, Pact broke down after several events.
 
1. Italian invasion of Albania. Pact did nothing against it. Turkey had a plan to send a joint force to Albania but none of the pact members trusted each other that much.
2. 1938 Turkish-British-French treaty. One of the main points of the Balcan pacy was neutrality towards major powers. This treaty of Turkey with Western powers seen by other members as a break of neutrality.
3. The breaking point was the coupe and counter-coupe at Yugoslavia in 1940. Balkan pact first did nothing and then dissolved itself. After that Germany invaded Yugoslavia and Italy invaded Greece.
 
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2 Eagle       1/18/2008 9:52:09 AM

The current animosity dates back to the-Turkish Way of 1919-1922 where Greece, supported by France and Britain, tried to land grab prosperous parts of Turkey. The war was hard and bitter and many died before Turkish forces led by Kemal Ataturk managed to force them out.

The end result was of Greeks living in Turkey being expelled to Greece and vice versa. The descendents of these displaced persons are still filled with hatred to the opposite side. Only 6 kilometers from my house there is a ghost village. The Greek population was expelled after the war and the Turkish immigrants from Greece refused to use the houses and built their own village next to them. 80 years later and they are still empty.

The Wiki entry for this war is very good. You should read it.

ht*p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919-1922)



I can understand the Turkish anger during the  Greek/Turkish war. From the Greek viewpoint, they were trying to regain their old capitol and territories. I think the brutality was unnecessary but old animosities die hard and those were rough times. Balkan wars were always brutal, not just between Greeks and Turks, but all Balkan countries.
On the other hand the Greeks suffered under the Turkish occupation also, so why not call it even and get on with building a future togethere. Get rid of the emotions and build a fabulous economy with Aegean oil. I mean, think about it... what it could do for both countries. Look at what oil money has done for Dubai and the other Arabs. It is a chance for Greece and Turkey to be independant countries so why let emotins stand in the way. Now I ask you ...what would be better in the long run, your hatred or oil money? Be honest with yourselves.
 
Heriot...thanks for the wiki entry, I read it many times.
 
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2 Eagle       1/18/2008 10:50:14 AM

Kane was referring to Balkan Pact of 30's which was founded by Ataturk and Venizelos.

Main objective of the Pact was to stop Russian, Italian and Bulgarian agressions towards ther Balkan nations. Members were Turkey, Greece, Romania and Yugoslavia. After both Venizelos and Ataturk died, Pact broke down after several events.

 

1. Italian invasion of Albania. Pact did nothing against it. Turkey had a plan to send a joint force to Albania but none of the pact members trusted each other that much.

2. 1938 Turkish-British-French treaty. One of the main points of the Balcan pacy was neutrality towards major powers. This treaty of Turkey with Western powers seen by other members as a break of neutrality.

3. The breaking point was the coupe and counter-coupe at Yugoslavia in 1940. Balkan pact first did nothing and then dissolved itself. After that Germany invaded Yugoslavia and Italy invaded Greece.


Thank you Pars for explaining Kanes comment. My only issue was that I knew nothing about Venizelos making an offer and Attaturk refusing it and of course, it did not happen.
I have read the Balkan Pact of 1934. Anyway, it seems that the Greeks did well against the Italians on their own. It even seems to have affected the outcome of WWll, to some extent, with Germany having to send so many divisions to Greece to extricate the Italians, that it altered the German timetable in Russia. The Russian winter was the worst in many years and the Germans were not ready for it, or a long campaign. Sorry to drift so much...it just seems to all go together...like swallowing the first oyster after you tie them all together...they all go down at once:)
In retrospect, it seems unfortunate that both Venizelos and Attaturk died so soon. They were both farsighted men, especially Attaturk.
 
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Pars    Balkan Pact   1/18/2008 11:28:41 AM
Kane was referring to Balkan Pact of 30's which was founded by Ataturk and Venizelos.
Main objective of the Pact was to stop Russian, Italian and Bulgarian agressions towards ther Balkan nations. Members were Turkey, Greece, Romania and Yugoslavia. After both Venizelos and Ataturk died, Pact broke down after several events.
 
1. Italian invasion of Albania. Pact did nothing against it. Turkey had a plan to send a joint force to Albania but none of the pact members trusted each other that much.
2. 1938 Turkish-British-French treaty. One of the main points of the Balcan pacy was neutrality towards major powers. This treaty of Turkey with Western powers seen by other members as a break of neutrality.
3. The breaking point was the coupe and counter-coupe at Yugoslavia in 1940. Balkan pact first did nothing and then dissolved itself. After that Germany invaded Yugoslavia and Italy invaded Greece.
 
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