America vs. Russia

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RedRussian 5/8/2008 8:56:03 PM

The final and most crusual part why i think that Russia will win is experience. Look in how many wars Russia has been. always beign invadede by every single neighbor. china germany poland a whiel a go. Russia is probably the most waring country in the world.

Also a big flaw that isnt acounted for is mandatory military service. taht mean EVERY single non cripled or disabled male in Russia is COMBAT READY. that is alot of guys. im not talking about little afrikan children. im talkign abotu trained soldires no difrent from Germna, French or american soldiers.

Also Spetsnaz and VDV is one of teh most profesional fightign groups in teh world. Look up the murder of afgan president during soviet afgan war. taht shows you what Russi's elite can do

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historynut 5/9/2008 1:12:20 PM

That is quite difficult. Russia has no intention of using its missiles in war but a war with America would gain back Russias supremacy if Russia wins. Russia could rain Americas western coast with ICBMs while Americ could rain Russias (deserted) eastern coasts. The Russians would wait for America to touch there land and begin a war oin the east. and then bomb the east. But if America would invade from the west more than likely Russia would NOT use bombs in Highlt populated areas. Basically its an unknown win, but Geographical features help much.

US ICBM's can hit westren Russia, why do you think they would only shoot at the east coast? You also forget the bombers and missles fired from subs. Not useing nukes the US could take out most Russian bases without entering Russia.

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afrc 5/10/2008 9:34:02 PM

Ok peopel i have been readign this thread soem what and desided to say the Russian side of this. Since the break down of the Soviet Union teh military has sufered significant budget cuts and such. taht resulted in coruption, bad maintenance and there was nothign beign resurched or developed durign that time. How ever nothign changes the fact that Russia has THE biggest and MOST powerfull tank force on teh planet. you cant win a war without ocupation. Also soem peopel sayign Russian soldiers are flawed that they lack in moral, and other shit. Please dotn tell me that Russians arent patriotic. They are raised to love and respect their country. taht is what nationalism is. Look at the t-90s Russia is sellign to India kick ass shit i say. there is not much taht can take that on. Also i dotn understand why the USA is number 1?? since when is it the self declared ruler. the USA has almost nothing that is in teh number 1 spot. F-22 sure is a very efective plane but teh eurofighter adn the new SU's and MIG's are much more agile and sofisticated aircraft. The m-1 tank is almost obsolete in a modern forst world country war. I cant deniy how ever they navy of the USA is teh biggest and probably most modern. with around 7 aircraft carriers io belive it is a great force.

Well, T-90 is a development of T-72 and M1A2SEP is a development of M1. Still M1 is a younger machine. Granted it was designed for head to head tank duels, but with TUSK upgrade kit it will be a survivable platform during urban combat. Tanks also need air superiority or parity to survive.
F-22 not only effective, but the only 5 gen plane in the world and most people give it advantage over anything in the air. There are already over 100 of them. It can still be overwhelmed with huge number of advanced generation 4 planes, but how many Su-3X does Russia have? And what about quality problems of those planes described in many articles?
There are other weapon systems of course and I can discuss them as well, but as far as I know there is no area where Russia has a significant advantage... except maybe Voiska PVO and it is a big question if they can handle a bunch of stealthy planes... after all there are not enough S-400 systems to protect the whole country and the system itself is not proven. Syrian Russian supplied SAM's were useless during Israeli raid on Syrian nuclear reactor.

Anyway... if not USA than what country is number one in your opinion?

The final and most crusual part why i think that Russia will win is experience. Look in how many wars Russia has been. always beign invadede by every single neighbor. china germany poland a whiel a go. Russia is probably the most waring country in the world.

Experience in WW2? Old and useless. Afghanistan? It was an underdeveloped country with primitive weapons. Chechnya? Your own territory with no modern army... and even there Russia had problems. Where is experience to be proud of? At least USA had Vietnam, 1991 and 2003 Iraq and Afghanistan. I think experience is on the American side.

Also a big flaw that isnt acounted for is mandatory military service. taht mean EVERY single non cripled or disabled male in Russia is COMBAT READY. that is alot of guys. im not talking about little afrikan children. im talkign abotu trained soldires no difrent from Germna, French or american soldiers.

And what about quality of that service? I doubt that it is on the same level as American. Iraq had plenty of soldiers, but it didn't help them, so quality comes before quantity.

Also Spetsnaz and VDV is one of teh most profesional fightign groups in teh world. Look up the murder of afgan president during soviet afgan war. taht shows you what Russi's elite can do

VDV tis good troops no doubt, but what about numbers? US is increasing USMC number to 200,000 marines. And we do not count SEAL and other SOCOM forces there.

Now what exactly gave you an idea that Russia can compete with US? Just curious. Now it is debatable whether US can occupy Russia and sustain occupation, but in head-to-head non-nuclear conflict I place my bets on USA.

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Herald12345 Calm down and take a breath. 5/10/2008 9:43:40 PM

The best thing Russia can do is rebuild its economy and satisfy the actual wants of its citizens for happy and peaceful lives.

You should learn from history's mistakes and not try to repeat them.

Herald

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nyetneinnon 5/11/2008 9:45:43 PM

I concur, Herald. I just gave a victory day cake to a Russian friend of mine, here in town, who's been on visa employment for about 3 yrs. He and I both new it was out of respect.

We seldom talk national and global politics and I think we're both glad that we have and want only a normal human-to-human relation. I'm sure he'd rather be home working in the labor force (if it was better modernized and competitive).

And I'm sure I'd love someday to go over and visit back in his home-town.

But absolutely, the major powers of the world, perhaps lead by the US and Kremlin Rus need to fully and finally dismantle the arms race and cold-war, via some sort of Yalta II conference.

While all would be destroyed in an all out war, and none would win, such a demilitarized and non-aggressive future would force all modern nations to develop more heavily in energy independence, economic security, human justice and social development.

Bottom line: while we all like to think of ourselves as glorious generals, bringing total victory to our nations, we are all mere space dust flying through the universe @ 100s of km/second, on Space ship Earth.

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historynut 5/12/2008 1:03:55 PM

Also Spetsnaz and VDV is one of teh most profesional fightign groups in teh world. Look up the murder of afgan president during soviet afgan war. taht shows you what Russi's elite can do

Russia has THE biggest and MOST powerfull tank force on teh planet.

Who has used tanks in combat? How many Russian crews have been shot at by other tanks or anti-tank weapons.

Also a big flaw that isnt acounted for is mandatory military service. taht mean EVERY single non cripled or disabled male in Russia is COMBAT READY.
Check how training the US troops get vs. what Russian troops get.

im talkign abotu trained soldires no difrent from Germna, French or american soldiers.
They just have a lot less training.

The final and most crusual part why i think that Russia will win is experience. Look in how many wars Russia has been. always beign invadede by every single neighbor.

The US does not need to invade Russia. Look at Germany in WWI. Keep them from getting the supplis they need and sooner or later they must give up.

Also Spetsnaz and VDV is one of teh most profesional fightign groups in teh world. Look up the murder of afgan president during soviet afgan war. taht shows you what Russi's elite can do

Being good at killing people that can't fight back is not something I'd point out. While some Spetsnaz went in the hills after the people with the guns most attacked towns full of women, children and old men. You don't win unless you take out the guys with the guys.

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RedRussian 5/14/2008 11:36:51 AM

Ok iv read all your controdictions and think abotu this. Look at the size of Russia. ITs big hu. Well how do you think Russia got all taht teritory. By War and conquest. It wasent open. Nothing is ever free. I dont think you understand the militaristic moral and feel of teh people. Also i am Russian but i live in USA.

The T-90 is an elite tank and yes it is a developmnt or built of the T-72 but i dont see why that really matters. The Ma1 has served its grand period of 20 years of domination and it is time for others to take the lead.

Look at su-47 I dotn think you have seen this. This is a conmpletely new jet. OH the creaters of this plane have given out a chalange to the USA to do a mock air battle against the SU-47. The US has yet to respond. this doesnt really meen anything but peopel sont stick their face out like that without being confident.

Experience???? Do you understand that ALLL of teh battles excluding teh eastern front even if doubled wouldent meet the huge battles fought against the nazis. Oh sure u guess landed on westernfront. but look how mnay divisions wetre sent your way and how many were sent to eastern front. Also 2 weeks ago there was a parade i dono if u saw but i know all of Russia did. Russian patriotism is not by a select few like in america. AMERICAN PATRIOTISM CONSISTS OF PUTTING UP A FLAG AND BUYING A BUMPER STICKER.

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historynut 5/15/2008 9:52:16 AM

Look at the size of Russia. ITs big hu.
That's one of the problems Russia has, it's big but has few roads, rail lines or airports. If you say compare Russia to Mexico, Russia is the one that comes up short. Mexico has more and better roads, rail lines and airports. While Russia has some long roads and rail lines for the most part it falls well behind Mexico.
A person in Mexico is a lot more likely to have electricity and indoor plumbing then someone in Russia.

Well how do you think Russia got all taht teritory. By War and conquest. It wasent open. Nothing is ever free. I dont think you understand the militaristic moral and feel of teh people.
Thats why your neighbors do not trust you very much.

It's an updating of an old design and has done nothing to correct the problems the old design had.

One - it's not yet in service with the Russian air force. Two - what they say it does and what it's been seen to do don't match.

Experience???? Do you understand that ALLL of teh battles excluding teh eastern front even if doubled wouldent meet the huge battles fought against the nazis.

Check how many seamen we lost getting supplies to Russia. It times 9 out of 10 ships were sink. We could have build just for us and England and had a lot more troops in uniform. A huge amount of supplies were sent to Russia. At the same time our troops were training with sticks becruse they did not have rifles, Russia was getting the rifles. If someone is building a tank he can't be on the front line fighting.

Oh sure u guess landed on westernfront. but look how mnay divisions wetre sent your way and how many were sent to eastern front.

Look at how much supplies were sent to the eastren front (Russia) and how much was sent to the westren front (US, England). Because of the supplies sent Russia could place a lot more men under arms.

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RedRussian 5/15/2008 11:21:35 AM

Look at the size of Russia. ITs big hu.
That's one of the problems Russia has, it's big but has few roads, rail lines or airports. If you say compare Russia to Mexico, Russia is the one that comes up short. Mexico has more and better roads, rail lines and airports. While Russia has some long roads and rail lines for the most part it falls well behind Mexico.
A person in Mexico is a lot more likely to have electricity and indoor plumbing then someone in Russia.

Hey dont even try to compare Russia to mexico. Russia is conected by mainly railroads. I dotn see what you really prove by this but it is hard to manage roads and railroads. Im sure the cost of how much Russia and Mexico spend on roads is way diffrent. wana know why? cause of teh winter. water freeezes in cracks and roads have huge cracks. so im sure aroudn half teh money goes to upkeep.; If you are comparing terain then russian is in a disatvantage in sowem aspects

Well how do you think Russia got all taht teritory. By War and conquest. It wasent open. Nothing is ever free. I dont think you understand the militaristic moral and feel of teh people.
Thats why your neighbors do not trust you very much.

Who?? Poland?? shit they have hated Russians all through 1500 till present. read up on it very intrestign shit. Also who china? Shit right now is getting alot better with em. They accepted only 1 countries help so far in their earthquake and that Russian help. And please dotn tell me taht America si loved by all.

It's an updating of an old design and has done nothing to correct the problems the old design had.

What problems please list 1. Are u gona tell me that they do not compete against the m-1??? Well the m-1 is teh firstmodern tank. The t-72 was a great tank for its tiem and now it is obsolete ina first world country war.

One - it's not yet in service with the Russian air force. Two - what they say it does and what it's been seen to do don't match.

No its not Cant lie about that but what about the new Su-(forgot the series think 37) This is also an air superiority fighter which will give America a run for its money. Also teh new missle defence systems that Russia has designed cans hoot down bird flyign at supersonic so i think it can take a palne too.

Experience???? Do you understand that ALLL of teh battles excluding teh eastern front even if doubled wouldent meet the huge battles fought against the nazis.

Oh HAHAHHAHAHAHAH lol you knwo why u lost all them ships hahah cause u were idiots. You send 50 of you OLD small cruisers to Brition and when the germans went wth operation Drumbeat you could protect your boats for leik 2 years lol. that not experience that stupidity. Also i dotn think America even participated in was that much. look its 1 small battle after another. that all smallchange. and even in teh Pacific Russia hat to clear out all of the mainland asia thaty Jaopan conquered. Also you shermans were shit on a stick compared with T-34

Oh sure u guess landed on westernfront. but look how mnay divisions wetre sent your way and how many were sent to eastern front.

Look at how much supplies were sent to the eastren front (Russia) and how much was sent to the westren front (US, England). Because of the supplies sent Russia could place a lot more men under arms.

No its because you didnt fight for your survival. you fought for anoterh countries survival. I dono what you are areally tryign to prove so i cant really say anythign against it. Also most of the suplies were sent 2 england and yet it took you fools 2 years to set up any real invasion. The small african campeign didnt really do much

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Herald12345 5/15/2008 12:35:49 PM

1. If I look at Russia, I see a terrain problem best managed by long-line rail and river traffic. So it was solved. Its a poorly managed traffic system though.

Well how do you think Russia got all taht teritory. By War and conquest. It wasent open. Nothing is ever free. I dont think you understand the militaristic moral and feel of teh people. Thats why your neighbors do not trust you very muc

Say goodbye to Siberia. The US isn't the only nation with an illegal immigrant problem.

It's an updating of an old design and has done nothing to correct the problems the old design had.

The T-90 can hit with about 5 megajoules at the strike. The M-1 is easily rated for that SMASH across its frontal arcs. The T-90 is barely rated for its gun. The M-1 strikes with about 7+ megajoules at its range which by the way still outranges the T-90.-even with the short 44 caliber gun. The export T-72 was and is no match for its contemporary the M-60. But then it wasn't supposed to be, different roles and missions. The Russian tank was/is designed as a swarm tank to overwhelm at close range and by sheer numbers. Well guess what? Russia doesn't have the numbers any more and the M-1 put the kibosh on swarm tactics. Ever hear of 73 Easting? The largest current tank park belongs to the US by the way.

One - it's not yet in service with the Russian air force. Two - what they say it does and what it's been seen to do don't match.

???????????????????????

Language problem I think. Some facts I give and not some propaganda. Most of the "new" Russian aircraft have been refinements of the Sukhoi 27 series. This is equivalent to the F-15 Eagle-an old aircraft. There is NO new Russian aircraft currently in development that will see service before 2015 that wasn't designed in the 1980s. Ditto with their SAMS. Good systems? Sure, but those are OLD designs. Nothing new in the pipeline except for a couple of radars and THOSE are at least two g3enerations behind the best British and German systems. Contrast this with US a

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