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Subject: The Russian MiG-29
Nuker    4/27/2003 11:34:10 AM
The Russian MiG-29 are one of the best production made aircraft in the world.It is belived that the MiG-29 can out run and destory one or more US F-15.Even Tho the MiG is old and out of date it still one of the best planes ever made by the Russian Airforce.......(if anybody has links to any russian aircraft please tell me)
 
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CCCP    RE:The Russian MiG-29   4/28/2003 4:07:42 PM
Okay, Okay, kalash. I'm not sure why planes need a "ground controller". Maybe you know something that I don't know? How this "controller" affects planes?
 
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Kalashnikov    RE:The Russian MiG-29   4/28/2003 4:25:25 PM
As far as I've heard, the ground controller for some American and most early Soviet planes served as a communications link between Soviet aircraft and giving info regarding targets and objectives. I've heard that the newer models of Soviet aircraft no longer a controller as they are able to communicate in groups and share data directly. Do you know whether this is verified or not?
 
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CCCP    RE:The Russian MiG-29   4/28/2003 4:30:05 PM
Hmmmmmmmm..I'm not sure (as far as I DON'T know). Lets get back to MiG-31s. They can fly in groups of 4 and "able to communicate in groups and share data directly".
 
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SGTObvious    Soviet Ground control   5/14/2003 2:35:56 PM
In the 1980's (I don't know about Russia today, I'm too old) Soviet tactical aviation and air defense was entirely controlled from the ground. Not like a modern UAV, that is. The ground controllers would give very specific instructionson exactly where each plane would fly. This was not due to the planes, it was Soviet tactics. Pilots were not allowed freedom of manuever. Why? Because the USSR and Warsaw pact had massive, overlapping belts of air defenses, and although pilots could talk to each other, they could not communicate with the air defense missile sites. Did they have IFF? Yes.. but would you trust in Soviet electronics? Even western electronic IFF fails at times- three times in Iraq at least, causing the destruction of 2 aircraft. Think of the THOUSANDS of air defense missile sites in the USSR and Warsaw Pact, and the thousands of chances for failure! Allowing aircraft to fly off their very strict ground control instructions would have caused many friendly fire losses.
 
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Final Historian    RE:Soviet Ground control   5/14/2003 2:42:32 PM
Soviet pilot training wasn't that great either. They built some good planes(the MiG-29 is probably more cost effective than the F-15), but they had poor pilots and knew it. So they kept their pilots on a tight leash, with ground controllers directing them to targets and such. This was official soviet doctrine for a while, but I suspect they may have changed it after '91, when the US showed that ground based air control installations make nice targets for cruise missiles.
 
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CCCP    RE:Soviet Ground control   5/14/2003 7:48:19 PM
Yes, Soviet electronics sucks. Compared to what F-15s got... But I've talked to people who's been in touch with all this electronic stuff in SUs, and they were saying that it's quite reliable. It won't cause any failures at all, well, maybe it's too loud, but still, 'cause of its simplicity. While american electronics is waaaaaaaaay more complicated, and that's what we've seen. I won't forget Billy saying that "it's easier to launch a rocket to the moon, than to create Windows XP"(somewhat like that). Billy is right. But does rockets flying to the Moon can get frozen half-way there? >>>when the US showed that ground based air control installations make nice targets for cruise missiles. While cruise missiles make nice targets for S-300s...
 
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Final Historian    RE:Soviet Ground control   5/14/2003 10:59:38 PM
Yeah, Russia has been working on its anti-missile tech for a while, basically ever since they realized our cruise missiles could pose a problem for them. However the US is currently working on a new generation of stealth cruise missiles which should be nearly impossible to stop.
 
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red star    RE:Soviet Ground control   5/25/2003 3:41:47 PM
Russia's poor pilots? Most jet kills: 22 by a Russian in Korea with a MiG 15 against F-86. That guy sure taught a few more generations how to do the same thing, but with SU 27 against F 15. And also, the SUs have overtaken the MIGs in everything, especially electronics.
 
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Final Historian    RE:Soviet Ground control   5/25/2003 3:58:02 PM
There will always be natural pilots who rise above the rest, but what I was saying was that Soviet training for their pilots was sub-par. They weren't instructed properly, and even old timers like that MiG ace can't overcome a lack of training time with good tips. As for the Su-27 being a better plane, I have heard that before, but I don't know enough to be able to give a qualified opinion of the matter. They served different roles though, the MiG was air-to-air, while the Su-27 was a fighter/bomber, correct?
 
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Phoenix Rising    RE:Soviet Ground control   5/25/2003 4:21:30 PM
FH, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-27.htm If Russia really had the money to fuel, maintain, and train pilots for its fleet, the Su-27 can pull its own weight and more. However, the numbers don't lie and even Russia's own military officers admit that conventional readiness is at rock bottom. For all the Russia news you could ever stomach, bookmark http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/default.cfm Best collection of Russian news, particularly that news most pertinent to non-Russians, on the Net, IMHO. --Phoenix Rising
 
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