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Subject: no troops for usa, no gas for ukraine
sanman    12/27/2005 3:47:08 PM
heh, "no love for russia" - big deal, no gas for ukraine http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4562952.stm better stock up on the LOVE to keep warm this winter ;P Oh well, the only country less loved than Russia these days is the USofA http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4562838.stm Sounds like nearly everybody's pulled their troops out of Iraq, including even the Ukrainians. I wonder if Ukraine's predicament at the hands of Russia isn't due to the withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from Iraq. I don't think the US is happy with any of the countries which have been pulling out their troops, and if they are abandoning the US, then I wouldn't be surprised if Bush signalled Putin that it was okay for him to turn the screws tighter on Ukraine, and Washington wouldn't make a sound or attempt to exploit the situation.
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:no troops for usa, no gas for ukraine   12/27/2005 3:49:50 PM
I doubt that- the Russians have their own screws to turn on Ukraine.
 
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sanman    RE:no troops for usa, no gas for ukraine   12/28/2005 1:00:04 AM
No, my point is that perhaps the Russians were deterred from turning the screws on Ukraine all this time because they were worried the US would come in as a rival. But with Ukraine pulling its troops from Iraq, maybe the Russians feel that reaction is not so likely anymore, so the coast was clear for them to cut the gas.
 
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mustavaris    Typhoons? Nightslime-   12/29/2005 5:47:36 PM
http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/general/41346.html And new... http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/04/russia-to-deliver-2-boomers-in-2006-with-new-slbms/index.php Have you ever been to Russia? Russia in 2005 is quite different from Russia in 1990, 1995 or even 2000... Russia is rising and if they can keep on expanding their economy beoynd raw material production they have great future [but also great challenges], Russia wonīt be a real superpower in foreseeable future, but they will regain their great power status sooner than one can expect if they can properly deal with the challenges they are facing. Keeping my thumbs up brothers...
 
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Admiral Kirk    RE:Typhoons? Nightslime-   12/29/2005 5:55:24 PM
Russia is a superpower people. Bank on that. China is also a superpower. Russia is not the beaten down country they project it to be. They are thriving massively. Many countries are pulling their troops out of Iraq. Spain, Ukraine, etc.....I am ok with countries not wanting to help the US. In return, we should stop helping the countries that will not help. Where is NATO at? I am sick and tired of countries bashing the US for going into Iraq. Diplomacy will only go so far people. It is amazing that common sense is lacking in todays world. This is unbelieveable. Perhaps the US should start taking care it itself instead of giving billions in aid/money to foreign countries. Peace Folks. Admiral Kirk
 
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mustavaris    RE:Typhoons? Nightslime-   12/29/2005 6:13:03 PM
Definately. Cream asses here in the north and there in the west should keep in mind what kind of crap Russians have gotten themselves thru and yet they are a nation of great people. If it were a matter of individual persons, they would already be on the top, but the system has failed them more than once. I wonīt get into that US generosity though... itīs a relative game, Admiral Kirk.. One gives and one gets. Absolute numbers tell much, but relative numbers more about the attitude. Anyway, even when one is keeping as negative as one can, I wonīt blame Americans for the lack of generosity. US government may suck every now and then [what nation has perfect administration?], but the people are another matter [I know, this is a cliche, but its true]... Just heard from my mother that in winter 1944-1945 when Finland was pretty much f#Ī%Ī up after three wars the people living in border regions got pretty much more or less informal aid from USA [remember, we fought besides Axis until spring 1944, then against Germans], there arenīt too much of written stuff about those charities, but they helped many of the poorest people living in north eastern regions during the time of greatest need.
 
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Finnish-Sissi    RE:no troops for usa, no gas for ukraine   12/29/2005 8:43:52 PM
I saw somewhere that the gas was sold for 0,5$ /m^3 to Ukraine. That's nothing in comarison with the marketprice which is about 140 $/m^3. The market price is far away the present price. The gas is sold for almost nothing and it can't be profitable at all for Russia. My conclusion is that the price should increase significantly. Where the new level should be set I do not know.
 
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mustavaris    RE:no troops for usa, no gas for ukraine   12/30/2005 4:27:02 AM
Well... That gas-thing is a remnant of Soviet era stuff and Ukrainians think that they can get gas for free even not part of Russian empire... I would arrange that thing with annual % increase in price which would lead into market price level in few years... Ukrainians have been milking Russia for some time so far and now when they donīt have pro-Russian leadership its going to make them pay for the goods they get.
 
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