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Subject: Scorpene Goes Long
SYSOP    12/20/2014 5:56:40 AM
 
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keffler25       12/20/2014 1:49:55 PM
Funny. GATOs made Pacific ocean combat patrols with twice the crew and about the same displacement. There were enough toilets and enough desalinization equipment for adequate showers and so forth.  Hygiene was a US mania, as it was discovered  early that submarine crews had to stay clean to stay healthy. 
 
I guess that shows the difference between a 'coastal' (France) and a 'blue water' (America) navy. 
 
 
 
 
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HR    Nice article   12/20/2014 2:52:46 PM
A 50 day cruise is maximum with a one week patrol being normal.
 
But that 50 day number is an impressive total. I assume that it would be at optimum speed. Still the longer range could be used for spying and clandestine operations such as laying mmines whick Wikepedia says it can carry 30.
 
This is what the LCS was designed to chase.
 
I know that you guys can google this too but for expedience here are a couple of links...
 
 
 
And now let us wait and see if Keffler posts that this article is a lie and goes crazy with his type of bestial posts trying to prove it.
 
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keffler25       12/20/2014 3:25:33 PM
You won't have to wait long, WOFTAM.  
 
No it isn't impressive at all a fifty day at sea patrol or transit. (The voyage was broken up in THREE stages, HR, with port layovers, or CAN'T YOU EVEN READ?    
 
A 50 day cruise is maximum with a one week patrol being normal.
 
Again when compared to Dutch, German, Israeli  or even Japanese combat boats, this DEBACLE does not speak well of the Malay purchased boats. This must have been a problem with incompetent poorly trained crews because the Scorpenes should be able to operate at 1000 hours on a patrol. And even with the one toilet and the limited condenser equipment the Scorpenes should not have been PIG boats.         
 
But that 50 day number is an impressive total. I assume that it would be at optimum speed. Still the longer range could be used for spying and clandestine operations such as laying mmines whick Wikepedia says it can carry 30.
 
You do know that your comment is a bunch of hooie?  Maximum shelf or rack space is 18 fish, so that gives us a theoretical of 36 mines. Given that the upper two tubes of the six are two dangerous as ejectors  and that the racks would thus be used for fish, that gives us a max theory space of 30, but a practical space load for 12-15 mines.    
 
This is what the LCS was designed to chase.
 No it wasn't, and it CAN'T, you Woftam.  
 
I know that you guys can google this too but for expedience here are a couple of links...
 
 
Incompetence.exhibited by you HR. As usual ROTFLMAO. Wiki is your source for your 'expertise"'  
 
And now let us wait and see if Keffler posts that this article is a lie and goes crazy with his type of bestial posts trying to prove it
 
You might not believe this WOFTAM, but I checked. The article is factually mostly accurate which is why I was SHOCKED that the Scorpene had those 'design faults' in the air plant, ballast control, and in the galley and condenser plants.      
 
This isn't exactly the first time DCNS has sent those boats to sea unready. 
I still think the CREW was to blame for most of the faults. A machine like a sub needs constant maintenance.  
 
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ka5s       12/20/2014 8:47:27 PM

INS Tannin is about the same displacement and crew size, and was reported to have made large part of its non-stop voyage from Germany to Israel submerged.
 
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HR    Keffler the LCS & Osprey expert   12/22/2014 9:32:47 AM
Keffler, Your last post was both unintelligent and ridiculous. Try again!
 
According to the article the Tanin's voyage was 20 days long. This seems to make it on-par with the new Malaysia's Scorpenes' endurance.
 
Both of them bring things to the table such as the ability to be stationed at a hot-spot as deterrence and forcing potential adversaries say for example the Chinese to place their ships further away.  To me these coastal subs continue to show the importance of the LCS.
 
And the LCS reminds me of Keffler again and his crazy posts. Give us another one Keff!
 
 
 
 
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keffler25       12/22/2014 9:46:03 AM
You of course don't know what the HELL you are talking about. From Bremen to Haifa is about 7400 kilometers nonstop about 20 days.
 
From St Nazaire to Lumut is 38 days at typical diesel electric cruise NONSTOP. The "breakdowns called for layovers in North Africa and Arabia and in the Indian Ocean (Pakistan, where some alleged repairs were made.). 
 
The rest of your BEE_ESS is based on a total misread of what the Israeli boats are designed to do.
 
Those Dolphins are SSM (C) strategic boats designed to deliver a nuclear second strike capability.

The Scorpene has no such design criteria nor capability.
 

 

Both of them bring things to the table such as the ability to be stationed at a hot-spot as deterrence and forcing potential adversaries say for example the Chinese to place their ships further away.  To me these coastal subs continue to show the importance of the LCS.

 

And the LCS reminds me of Keffler again and his crazy posts. Give us another one Keff!

 

 

 



 
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HR    Keffler the LCS & Osprey expert   12/22/2014 11:29:08 AM
More of the same Kefflerian logic... why on this god's earth would Malaysia have a need for a nuclear capable submarine???? Or why would they need an open-ocean US style submarine???
 
For Keffler to house in his head a mountain of disjointed facts with no ability to put them together is completely useless to him obviously but to every one else too.
 
In this instance he is throwing things to the air and almost none of them make any sense with in the context of this article.
 
I think the Malaysian Navy has gotten themselves a very nice sub. I would like to know how it is priced vs. competitors because another thing is that the Malaysia navy is frugal. They buy carefully.
 
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Johnny    Clueless   12/22/2014 12:29:48 PM
@keffler
You do seem to forget that France has nuclear subs and an aircraft carrier which are not exactly coastal vessels. France has a blue water navy, sorry to rain on your parade.
 
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JFKY    If I might disrupt the Keffler/HR hatefest   12/22/2014 12:57:37 PM
1.  I can see how the Malaysians had trouble, with only 1 toilet, 1 shower & a month at sea, between port calls.  Did not the Malaysian Navy not anticipate this problem?
2. I can see how the long journey stressed a more short-legged boat.  Again, did not the Malaysian Navy anticipate this problem?  Again, that means crew training, also staging supplies & personnel along the route.
3. Given 1&2 above, wouldn't it have been better & easier to simply hire a Heavy Lift Vessel to transport the SSK, at least part ways to Malaysia?  Possibly as far as Pakistan, from there a shakedown cruise to Malaysia? 
4. This doesn't exactly speak well of the Malaysian Naval Staff, IMO.
 
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HR    JFKY   12/22/2014 1:12:02 PM
The reason they sail them is more like an extended sea trial, train the crew as well as to uncover hidden defects. This latter will normally be done with the cooperation of the ship-yard
 
The one toilet is hard to believe. For 31 persons.
 
Wikepedia gave a price tag of $450 million per vessel. This is not bad. The Tannin where 650 million Euros so that might make them about one-and-half times the price.
 
It is not a bad sub and if some one is trying to blockade one of your ports just one of these little guys will send the aggressor's ships scattering into open waters so it is not bad. But it can also be used for spying, special operations, etc. All that for $450 million.
 
Sometime we look down at affordable weapons that do the job. This one seems like one of those.
 
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