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Subject: Best Submarines///
On Watch    7/15/2004 1:50:22 AM
link Which of these navies has the best submarine?...due to what some consider an overconcentration on engineering caused by the influence of Hyman G. Rickover). However, the United States Navy, through sheer volume of numbers and solid training (albeit not as good as the British) probably has the best force overall. ? Harold C. Hutchison Hmmmmmm...Now, what was that I heard about the Brits Pride & Joy tied to the pier at Gibraltar for 6 months(or more?) and the rest of their submarine fleet restricted to Port? Here's a U.S. Nuke Submarine Song, that illustrates for the layman an idea of the "Engineering" effort required from a crew in the US Fleet. Sing it, to the tune of ?GHOST RIDERS IN THE SKY?. Machinery Two had just sat down one early afternoon, He glanced into the tunnel not expecting any gloom. When all at once a mighty herd of red hats did he see, A plowin? through machinery one?and bringin?misery. Refrain: Yip-ee-i-ay?yip-ee-i-o! Drill mongers are no fun. The drills they planned were scramming and a loss of one TG, The ERS was in the head where he had gone to pee. The AEA was cleaning and rebrushing an MG, The EOOW was a?sleeping??the RO it was me! (Refrain) The trainees were assembled and a ring placed in their nose, They were told they had to play the game or get beat with a hose. They ran flooding, famine, petilence, and miseries untold. I sat there at my panel and watched the plant go cold. (Refrain) To do our job, that?s open valves and shut these breakers quick, We had to skip the breakfast served, or we would all be sick. The eggs were runny, sausage raw, and pancakes way too thick. I hated what was happening?I?d rather suck?(Refrain) The Noseconers had a drill, we all sucked rubber then, You could tell it wasn?t going well, ?cause tempers were real thin. The hotline, it was all bitched up, and Launcher?s lights were dim, Then Newsome pulled the lever?and blew San 2 on him. (Refrain) They grabbed an off-watch section and they dragged them to the brief, They told them of the drills they planned and ninety kinds of grief. They talked of scrams and fires and floods and loss of lots of sleep, I haven?t had this much fun since?I got Herpes from a toilet seat! (Refrain) Original was by "Fat Fonda" USS J.K.POLK SSBN645 (BLUE), circa 1969
 
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Thomas    RE:Best Submarines Brave men indeed ///   11/2/2004 4:46:57 AM
My hunch on the Seawolf is that it was designed for a mission, that is not relevant any more.
 
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stando    RE:Collins   11/23/2004 5:47:52 PM
I don't think that your information is that correct on the Collins they aren't that quiet from all reports
 
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gf0012-aust    Collins - Stando   11/23/2004 6:10:13 PM
1) I was part of the project 2) I've been involved with the sig reduction technology which is now under review offshore. Which has also been installed in a number of close allies platforms. 3) The comments at the last Sub Warfare Conf came from USN nuke drivers, people from Boeing (who are involved with sub warfare technology - a little known fact from those outside the service) and from engineers from Northdrop Grumman To be blunt, but harsh. Most people (esp in Australia - and especially the public who just get media feeds - have no ferkin idea what has happened and what changes have occurred in the last 2 years. So, unless your involvement is similar to mine - then I'm not up for a discussion about it if you just wanbt to throw the same comments back (which I have seen since 1995). If you want to make stock replies that are based on what you've read in the "schlock press" - then I won't be able to convince you anyway. Finally - it's not just about quietness - it's a combination of things that make the changes dramatic. I don't think the USN is going to let the AN/BYG-1 combat control system (the same as that to be installed on the Seawolfs and Virginias - to go onto a piece of kit that wasn't capable) No offence. but if I appear impatient, it's because I've just had 2 months of forum conversations with people about submarine capability etc and it's apparent that they know 4/5ths of 2/3rd's of ferk all - they should stick to singing their national anthem backwards as it will accomplish more and probably give everyone else greater satisfaction as well. /rant off
 
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gf0012-aust    Collins - Stando   11/23/2004 6:20:40 PM
In the last 2 years, since the sig reduction changes have been made, and since hull revisions were made, the Collins have "sunk" a 688i, a number of CVN's, some AB-II's and managed to avoid a dedicated ASW task force at the last RIMPAC (2004) involving 5 skimmers and 2 fixed wing efforts tooling around in Orions. In fact, the Collins was inside the 12 mile limit and was still unable to be found in a "known grid" in the wargame area. All this was in an unassisted fashion. The USN did not provide assisted shots - especially with the most recent CVN and 688I slots. They were sunk in open, unfettered competition without noisemakers and modified rules to assist the attackers. It would pay to look for some recent USN articles as personally, I wouldn't quote Aust'n references anyway.
 
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Factor X    RE:Collins - Stando   11/25/2004 2:03:52 AM
Not to stray too off-topic, but gf0012-aust, we will be fabricating about a half-dozen keel-mounted sonar domes for your FFG's! Be proud - they're an incredible improvement. An unfair advantage, if you will. But honestly, doesn't all of this submarine superiority lose some of its importance when one considers projection range? A Collins will not have much reach over Taiwan... or Chile... or Murmansk, will it? Not to diminish it at all, but it's not a weapon of force projection, but area protection. That's why USN boats have been consistently nuclear, I guess. FX
 
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gf0012-aust    Collins - FX   11/25/2004 2:28:45 AM
"Not to stray too off-topic, but gf0012-aust, we will be fabricating about a half-dozen keel-mounted sonar domes for your FFG's! Be proud - they're an incredible improvement. An unfair advantage, if you will." I imagine that there will be a few happy punters for that little mod, have you still got my email address?? "But honestly, doesn't all of this submarine superiority lose some of its importance when one considers projection range? A Collins will not have much reach over Taiwan... or Chile... or Murmansk, will it? Not to diminish it at all, but it's not a weapon of force projection, but area protection. That's why USN boats have been consistently nuclear, I guess." One of the doctrinal theoreticals was that they were initially designed to travel with the 7th Fleet if anything brewed up in the pacific. They do have a 70(+) day capability, and they were designed to to do covert work as well. So their job would have been to slot enemy subs, ELINT sniffing, assist in CSF protection, and dump off "neoprene wearing" self breathers They would be unlikely to go into the Atlantic or colder waters, as their strength lies in tooling around in the tropics and warmer waters like the Indian, Pacific and all the little patches nearby.
 
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Factor X    RE:Collins - FX   11/25/2004 3:12:01 AM
Good point. I was working with some Norwiegans, and their strategic contribution was to provide minesweepers for the North Atlantic Coast. Nothing more. When we came near, the made it clear. This, I suppose, is the "A" in NATO. Teamwork. Lost your email addy. Would love to hear of your specialties. I do a lot with EB and NSWCCD. Hull coatings, acoustic apertures, radar CS reductions. We do the medium-frequency bow dowm on the VACL. Fiberglass, almost 150mm thick. Also Hi-freq sail array. Trying to get the chin array aperture currently. Fun stuff.
 
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gf0012-aust    Email FX   11/25/2004 3:22:13 AM
a test is on it's way to the original email address you sent me before. gf
 
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Tercio    SSK's top ten?   11/25/2004 3:29:52 AM
A little bit off topic, but I'd like to check our poster's opinion about the SSK's now in service worldwide. Tercio
 
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gf0012-aust    SSK's top ten?   11/25/2004 4:15:32 AM
in no particular order Scorpene 212-214 209 (modified) Sjöbjörnen/Challenger (modified) Collins (modified) Agosta 90 (modified) Södermanland (modified) Götland Oyashio 636 Kilo (Latter, modified) "modified" usually refers to acoustic and sig reduction, or AIP modified platforms of the original class. I haven't included Amur as not enough is known to benchmark it except to assume that it will be better than a 636 for the same mission profile.
 
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