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Subject: Best Submarines///
On Watch    7/15/2004 1:50:22 AM
link Which of these navies has the best submarine?...due to what some consider an overconcentration on engineering caused by the influence of Hyman G. Rickover). However, the United States Navy, through sheer volume of numbers and solid training (albeit not as good as the British) probably has the best force overall. ? Harold C. Hutchison Hmmmmmm...Now, what was that I heard about the Brits Pride & Joy tied to the pier at Gibraltar for 6 months(or more?) and the rest of their submarine fleet restricted to Port? Here's a U.S. Nuke Submarine Song, that illustrates for the layman an idea of the "Engineering" effort required from a crew in the US Fleet. Sing it, to the tune of ?GHOST RIDERS IN THE SKY?. Machinery Two had just sat down one early afternoon, He glanced into the tunnel not expecting any gloom. When all at once a mighty herd of red hats did he see, A plowin? through machinery one?and bringin?misery. Refrain: Yip-ee-i-ay?yip-ee-i-o! Drill mongers are no fun. The drills they planned were scramming and a loss of one TG, The ERS was in the head where he had gone to pee. The AEA was cleaning and rebrushing an MG, The EOOW was a?sleeping??the RO it was me! (Refrain) The trainees were assembled and a ring placed in their nose, They were told they had to play the game or get beat with a hose. They ran flooding, famine, petilence, and miseries untold. I sat there at my panel and watched the plant go cold. (Refrain) To do our job, that?s open valves and shut these breakers quick, We had to skip the breakfast served, or we would all be sick. The eggs were runny, sausage raw, and pancakes way too thick. I hated what was happening?I?d rather suck?(Refrain) The Noseconers had a drill, we all sucked rubber then, You could tell it wasn?t going well, ?cause tempers were real thin. The hotline, it was all bitched up, and Launcher?s lights were dim, Then Newsome pulled the lever?and blew San 2 on him. (Refrain) They grabbed an off-watch section and they dragged them to the brief, They told them of the drills they planned and ninety kinds of grief. They talked of scrams and fires and floods and loss of lots of sleep, I haven?t had this much fun since?I got Herpes from a toilet seat! (Refrain) Original was by "Fat Fonda" USS J.K.POLK SSBN645 (BLUE), circa 1969
 
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DropBear    RE:Collins   9/25/2004 5:17:36 AM
What is the truth about Collins (namesake), having bow cap welding problems? It was a while ago, but I remember former defmin John Moore saying it was cactus! Has it been rectified? What about Dechainaux, I thought there were water tight leakage issues? I'm probably out of date by a long shot ;) .
 
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southern cross    RE:Collins   9/25/2004 6:12:43 AM
i think the swedish welding on the first of class HMAS Collins has been fixed up, and i think the problem on big D(as if i can spell the real name) was obviously serios but blown way out of proportion. only problem i know of was that for a few months the crew of one of the subs had to drink bottled water because of higher than normal chemical levels in the water pipes. but fine old girls those collins are, the media should get fudged.
 
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DropBear    RE:Collins   9/25/2004 6:18:41 AM
Dechainaux came close (about 60 seconds if you believe the navy) to sinking, when it suffered catastrophic valve leakage..
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Collins   9/25/2004 6:33:42 AM
A few things here. The first unit was ferked - and that was basically due to appalling quality control by the swedes. It took quite a bit to repair it. The issue of who was wrong was a 3 way tussle between govt, navy and the builder - all have some responsibility. Moore was an absolute tool, I think I attended 4 functions where he was pi$$ed at everyone of them. He was fantastic at speaking off the cuff and being able to say absolutely nothing meaningful - a typical pollie. A couple of defence conferences he took to the stand pi$$ed and unable to string a decent sentence together - he was a ferking embarassment and it was covered up pretty quickly - hence his early exodus from govt. As for the capability - in the most recent exercises (within the last 4 months), it was one vessel against a dedicated ASW skimmer group and dedicated ASW air assets. The end result is that there are a number of senior USN staff who do consider the Collins the quietest subs in the world. Bear in mind these people have also come up against Scorpenes, O's, HDW 200 series and Agostas in training, so it's not a throw away comment. The vaunted Kilo (even the latest version) is probably out of the top 5 now. But IMHO that was more media spin than actual capability.
 
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southern cross    RE:Collins   9/25/2004 6:43:45 AM
"Dechainaux came close (about 60 seconds if you believe the navy) to sinking, when it suffered catastrophic valve leakage. " i didnt think it was that bad, but then again take on water for 60 seconds and your ferked right. the rankin performed well at RIMPAC i hear from a few guys who participated (and not on rankin), and was the best sub there.
 
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southern cross    RE:Collins   9/25/2004 6:48:12 AM
"the rankin performed well at RIMPAC i hear from a few guys who participated (and not on rankin), and was the best sub there" that didnt make complete sense, i'll blame grand final day and its associated bevereges. i'll try it again: HMAS rankin performed well at RIMPAC i here from a few guys who participated (and not on rankin) that she was the best sub there, very quiet, and gave the surface forces hell.
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Collins   9/25/2004 7:12:41 AM
What has not been promoted in the Australian press (as they are fed up with them) is that the signature reduction technology on the Collins is Australian and that it's been used on 4 major users - some of which are nukes. One of the famous stealth vessels that are harped on about uses the same technology to lower its emission footprint. When people bucket the Collins they demonstrate no knowledge of what its capability is - which means that their knowledge is obviously a legacy of media remnants. They are without doubt, one of the quiestest subs in the world over a number of ranges.
 
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french stratege    gf0012-aust    10/7/2004 10:13:43 AM
What is the system of reduction signature on Autralian collins (active, passive?) How much does it cost to develop or how many men* years. Which basic tech it involves and which basic Aus organism provided base tech?
 
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kjetski    RE:Best Submarines Brave men indeed ///   11/1/2004 4:17:28 PM
Seawolf is too big and too expensive. I lacks certain kinds of equipment indicating no intention to operate under the ice. But there are some inherent advantages to size. It will be very hard to sink. It has a significant special operations capability, enhanced in the later boats. But in the end it suffers from the problem inherent with small numbers - any given ship can only be one place at a time - and modern sensors and weapons probably mean it can be sent home even if it survives an enemy attack. Odds are long, in that case, there is no other available to take its place. Too many eggs in one basket. Better it would be to have more, cheaper ships, and USN is now taking that road. I understand your point entirely. Just imagine if we built 60 thousand t-55's. Would you rather have thousands of cheap Commie tanks or good M-1's? For my cash, give me the M-1! And any western nuker. Despite the bluster on this board they all are about the same in quality.
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Best Submarines Brave men indeed ///   11/1/2004 7:03:54 PM
[ Despite the bluster on this board they all are about the same in quality. ] Bollocks. There is a considersable difference in the quality of subs between the top 10 platforms. There is an enormous difference between a Virginia and other nuke generations. There is an enormous difference between a 214 and an Agosta or a Kilo add in the issues of training competence and integration of other assets and you are looking at a quality variance similar to Hake and Blue Fin Tuna.
 
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