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Subject: Run Silent, Run Cheap
SYSOP    7/22/2008 5:34:24 AM
 
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displacedjim       7/23/2008 2:36:56 PM

ASW operations need to start long before the sub is stalking your forces, with knowing how many are operational, what their true crew capabilities are, where they are deployed, what their intentions are, using satellite and other methods to find them when they are vulnerable, and intercepting communications.

 

But I don't know if enough is being done on torpedo countermeasures and autonomous UUVs - that could be used to shadow enemy subs.






I'd bet that everything you mentioned is included in the areas where we *have* been continuously improving since the Cold War ended.  But I'm not a naval analyst, so I don't claim to know.
 
 
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LB    ASW   7/24/2008 3:01:33 PM
ASW has been and remains a numbers game.  It requires large numbers of platforms for detection and prosecution.  The numbers of asw patrol aircraft of most nations has fallen by a wide margin the past 20 years as well as numbers of warships and other platforms that carry asw sensors.
 
It was found during WWII that inadequate asw coverage is akin to no coverage (see Clay Blair's multi volume Hitler's U-boat War and/or Gannon's Black May, both in print in paperback) and this was against a platform that was not real submarine but merely a submerisble- a surface torpedo boat that could submerge for brief periods.  The air dropped asw homing torpedo as well as the sonobuoy and many other asw tools were invented in WWII and the tools have gotten more effective but the basics remain.  If one does not have enough platforms for detection then one does not have adequate asw.
 
 
 
 
 
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FJV       7/25/2008 3:31:10 PM
I have a hunch that there are some technological possibilities that have the potential to make the current discussion obsolete. I base this on some non military research stuff I see on the internet, that for some reason nobody sees as usefull for warfare.
 
The problem is that I don't like discussing any of it for the same reasons why I don't like discussing tactics and strategies that would make terrorists more effective on a public forum.
 
 


 
 
 
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Thomas       7/27/2008 8:11:51 AM
FJV: That makes 2 of us.
 
What we can diskuss in an open forum is:
 
Denmark gave up using submarines - just as the new design was about to be build - yard decided and all of that.
 
I would notice the powercable being laid between  Borneo and the Malacca peninsula.
 
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YelliChink       7/28/2008 11:37:41 AM


Not idiots, Herald.  They are well-financed hard-leftists with an anti-US Military agenda. And preventing the US Navy from proper sonar training is a significant victory for them and a significant defeat for the US Navy, for America.



I agree with not idiots part, but I don't agree these people are agenda-driven as you described. They read the agenda and $ appeared in their eyes. They went on creating a hype and generate money from it.
 
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flyingarty    Subs   7/29/2008 10:26:01 AM
A Sub- Mariner friend of mine says there are only two types of ships-Subs and Targets.
 
As for GreenPeace: Fools suffices quiet nicley.
 
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