Dont forget the continous practice with German Subs ...

 

This is the "Enterprise", seen through a German 206 periscope ( U-24) in the Carribean ... 

 

As long as you have idiots+lawyers=lawsuits.

 

Herald

 

 

Not idiots, Herald.  They are well-financed hard-leftists with an anti-US Military agenda. And preventing the US Navy from proper sonar training is a significant victory for them and a significant defeat for the US Navy, for America.

Dave is right. The "animal rights" core is far from idiotic. They and their global warming bretheren are hard Left radicals with a vicious anti-American agenda. The only idiots in either camp are the mush headed-contributors to their coffers.

 

I'm not much for Executive Orders but can't the President use this power to basically tell Greenpeace types to shove a whale bone up their arses?

 

BTW, that periscope shot of the Big E sends shivers up my spine every time I see it.

Idiots. They have no scientific basis for their complaints, just as the global warming crowd has no legitimate science for their nonsense, though they use the same exact tactics and are politically the same.

 

Politically they may think they are clever, but I guarantee you that they never read what happened to their great heroes Trotsky , Makarov, and Kirov! Ax, firing squad, and shot in the back of the head, are poor rewards for them come the revolution.

 

Herald.

I do not agree with the premise that AIP is quieter than Nuclear. Safe for the fuel cell stack, every AIP system -- Sterling, Closed Cycle Diesel, MESMA, you name it -- has reciprocating parts and/or turbines. None of these are noise free. Even fuel cells have pumps which run the Hydrogen through the stack. The biggest difference really is that Diesel Subs with AIP no longer has to snorkel as frequently or at all for hours at a time exposing themselves to a higher level of detectability than nuclear boats which do not need to do so.

 

Nuclear boats -- when properly designed -- will be acoustically equivalent to AIP boats, but with dramatically better performance, essentially infinite endurance and vastly better sensors (mainly due to their size).

ASW operations need to start long before the sub is stalking your forces, with knowing how many are operational, what their true crew capabilities are, where they are deployed, what their intentions are, using satellite and other methods to find them when they are vulnerable, and intercepting communications.

 

But I don't know if enough is being done on torpedo countermeasures and autonomous UUVs - that could be used to shadow enemy subs.

I'd bet that everything you mentioned is included in the areas where we *have* been continuously improving since the Cold War ended.  But I'm not a naval analyst, so I don't claim to know.

 

ASW has been and remains a numbers game.  It requires large numbers of platforms for detection and prosecution.  The numbers of asw patrol aircraft of most nations has fallen by a wide margin the past 20 years as well as numbers of warships and other platforms that carry asw sensors.

 

It was found during WWII that inadequate asw coverage is akin to no coverage (see Clay Blair's multi volume Hitler's U-boat War and/or Gannon's Black May, both in print in paperback) and this was against a platform that was not real submarine but merely a submerisble- a surface torpedo boat that could submerge for brief periods.  The air dropped asw homing torpedo as well as the sonobuoy and many other asw tools were invented in WWII and the tools have gotten more effective but the basics remain.  If one does not have enough platforms for detection then one does not have adequate asw.

 

 

 

 

I have a hunch that there are some technological possibilities that have the potential to make the current discussion obsolete. I base this on some non military research stuff I see on the internet, that for some reason nobody sees as usefull for warfare.

 

The problem is that I don't like discussing any of it for the same reasons why I don't like discussing tactics and strategies that would make terrorists more effective on a public forum.

 

 

 

 

FJV: That makes 2 of us.

 

What we can diskuss in an open forum is:

 

Denmark gave up using submarines - just as the new design was about to be build - yard decided and all of that.

 

I would notice the powercable being laid between  Borneo and the Malacca peninsula.