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Subject: Underwater and undercover: how nuclear subs were first line of Falklands defence
The Lizard King    12/3/2007 12:46:10 PM
Five Royal Navy submarines lined up, submerged, on the edge of Argentina’s 12-mile territorial limit to provide early warning of bombing raids on the British task force during the Falklands conflict, according to a new account of the secret role played by the nuclear-powered vessels. Trailing wire aerials behind them, the submarines were able to pick up launchings of Skyhawks and other aircraft from the main base at Rio Grande, pinpointing their type and number, and giving the task force 45 minutes’ notice in which to react. The details of the 1982 mission, which was never discovered by the Argentinians, have been revealed by the former second-in-command of one of the boats, HMS Conqueror. Writing in a special publication, Royal Navy, A Global Force, Vice-Admiral Sir Tim McClement, now retired, says that 25 years after the Falklands campaign it is important to recall the “vital contribution” of the submarines to victory. Related Links Chavez vows revenge for Falklands war The Falklands: 25 years since the Iron Lady won her war Marine killed Argentinian in Falklands war blunder The threat from Argentina’s Sky-hawk bombers, armed with 1,500lb and 2,000lb bombs, and its Super Étendards, fitted with sea-skimming Exocet antiship missiles, posed the gravest danger to the task force, mainly because the Royal Navy lacked any proper early-warning system. Although the two Royal Navy aircraft carriers, HMS Invincible and HMS Hermes,were out of range of the Argentine bombers, located well to the east of the Falklands, the warships on point duty closer to the Argentine mainland, and the troops landing on the islands, were highly vulnerable. The well-documented secret plan to attack one of the main Argentine air-bases and destroy the Skyhawks, using the SAS, was aborted after a dry run went wrong and a number of SAS soldiers had to seek sanctuary in neighbouring Chile. The presence of five nuclear-powered submarines – HMS Conqueror, HMS Splendid, HMS Spartan, HMS Courageousand HMS Valiant,and one conventional diesel-electric submarine, HMS Onyx – provided the solution. In the early part of the conflict, most of the submarines were engaged in other, priority missions. HMS Conqueror was trailing the Argentine cruiser, General Belgrano, and on May 2 fired two Mark 8 torpedoes, sinking the ship, with the loss of 323 sailors. HMS Splendid and HMS Spartan were involved in the search for the Argentine aircraft carrier 25 de Mayo, which was suspected of lurking in the mist north of the Falklands, preparing for a pincer movement together with the Belgranoagainst the task force. HMS Onyx was engaged in top-secret special forces operations. However, eventually the five nuclear-powered submarines took up positions on the Argentine 12-mile limit to act as early-warning platforms. There were several dramatic incidents. Admiral McClement reveals that in transit to the 12-mile limit HMS Conqueror got her floating wire aerial wrapped around her propeller. “This made a distinctive noise. She knew Argentine submarines were in her area and so had to get rid of the wire,” he writes. All the divers on board the submarine volunteered for the dangerous task of untangling the wire. The former deputy commander of the submarine recalls: “It was very rough, far too rough for peacetime rules to put people on to the deck, let alone put a diver into the water.” HMS Conqueror surfaced and eight volunteers successfully removed the wire “knowing that if an Argentine aircraft, ship or submarine was detected, the captain [Commander Christoper Wreford-Brown] would have to shut the hatch, dive the submarine and leave them to their fate. Thankfully, they all came home to tell the tale,” Admiral McClement says. With the 45-minutes warning from the submarines, Sea Harriers on combat patrol were alerted and several Argentine bombers were destroyed, forcing others to return to base. But there were uncomfortable consequences for the submariners. “These [returning] planes jettisoned their bombs before landing, and they did so around the 12-mile limit. All the boats employed in this task experienced some random bombing, luckily without damage,” Admiral McClement writes. HMS Conqueror arrived back at Faslane, its home base on the Clyde, after 90 days continuously at sea. “Although she played a significant part in the conflict, her crew never actually saw the Falkland Islands,” Admiral McClement says. h*tp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2950936.ece
 
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YelliChink       12/3/2007 1:12:28 PM
RN was very lucky that Argentinian SST-4 torpedoes didn't work properly from many factors. Their countermeasure actually worked to repel at least one attack, and the RN's ASW crew have proved to be very good such that Argentinian sub crew launched torpedoes below its operating depth a few times, causing them to mulfunction.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    A very expensive radar picket!   12/3/2007 1:24:18 PM
 
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eldnah       12/3/2007 4:03:06 PM
Unfortunately the above history illustrates a problem with the new CVFs. Off Okinawa the USN's radar picket destroyers that warned of the incoming Kamikaze attacks suffered very significant losses leading to the conversion and subsequent purpose designed radar picket submarines, SSRs, with retractable antennas including the nuclear powered Triton. They were rapidly withdrawn from service though with the availability of carrier launched AEW planes like the Tracer and Hawkeye. The lack of catapults on the CVFs limits their AEW aircraft to helicopters ( I can't imagine a significant enough market to amortize the cost of developing an Osprey AEW ) with their concomitant altitude limitations restricting radar range.   
 
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Herald1234    radar blimp or aerostat off a frigate.   12/3/2007 4:11:20 PM
Better than nothing, as it gives you a heavy radar at altitude inexpensively. And a Merlin AEW is still not a bad # 2 option.
 
Herald
 
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RockyMTNClimber    gold plated coast watchers   12/3/2007 7:03:47 PM
In this case the UK had the luxury of placing these extremely high value assets on station to watch the sky. They ran a risk, small but still there, of some Argentine catching a Nuclear Attack Boat in the shallows and getting a lucky prosecution. That is an unacceptable risk IMV. It also appears they have not remedied their naval early warning deficiency yet either. Their next opponent might not be a poor SA military junta.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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gf0012-aust       12/3/2007 7:54:12 PM

RN was very lucky that Argentinian SST-4 torpedoes didn't work properly from many factors. Their countermeasure actually worked to repel at least one attack, and the RN's ASW crew have proved to be very good such that Argentinian sub crew launched torpedoes below its operating depth a few times, causing them to mulfunction.



I'm confused as to what this has got to do with a picket line of nukes?  "Woulda coulda shoulda - did'na."
 
on another note - IMO there is an historical innacuracy with McLements timeline and one of the boats taskings.
 
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YelliChink       12/4/2007 11:32:07 AM




RN was very lucky that Argentinian SST-4 torpedoes didn't work properly from many factors. Their countermeasure actually worked to repel at least one attack, and the RN's ASW crew have proved to be very good such that Argentinian sub crew launched torpedoes below its operating depth a few times, causing them to mulfunction.





I'm confused as to what this has got to do with a picket line of nukes?  "Woulda coulda shoulda - did'na."

 

on another note - IMO there is an historical innacuracy with McLements timeline and one of the boats taskings.


This has nothing to do with nuke sub picket. I just felt like to post it. I have sub obssessive syndrome.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       12/4/2007 12:43:23 PM

In this case the UK had the luxury of placing these extremely high value assets on station to watch the sky. They ran a risk, small but still there, of some Argentine catching a Nuclear Attack Boat in the shallows and getting a lucky prosecution. That is an unacceptable risk IMV. It also appears they have not remedied their naval early warning deficiency yet either. Their next opponent might not be a poor SA military junta.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky



In the event of more clashes over territorial rights in Antarctic and Arctic waters, there will be alot of high quality AIP boats waiting for nukes to show up.
 
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Yimmy       12/5/2007 12:31:24 PM
I'm not sure "radar picket" is quite the right way of looking at it.  We are not talking about boats using radar here at all - that would seem an awfully silly risk.  We are talking about the boats enacting EW warfare, listening in to Argentinian transmissions with their trailing while well submerged.
 
I expect we did exactly the same thing in the Gulf war of 91 and even of 2003.
 
 
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