submarines in the movies

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Fast&Deep RE:submarines in the movies 6/8/2005 10:37:08 AM

Here you go then. 1. Submarine CO's don't send and recieve morse code by flashing light via the search periscope. The Hunt For Red October. 2. It is impossible to tell a targets range from his active sonar transmissions, unles you are in very deep water and attempt to ping steal. THFRO 3. Crazy Ivan tactics are designed to generate bearing movement for a quick firing solution and not an attempt to ram. Even the Soviets were not that stupid! THFRO 4. You cannot detonate an air dropped torpedo by pushing a red firing button. If it's wire guided it is possible to command stop the weapon, but air dropped weapons are not wire guided. THFRO. 5. Submarines do not zig between undersea mountain ridges. HMS Trafalgar and a couple of USN submarines are the proof why. THFRO 6. The tonal bandwith that "Jonsey" was attempting to try target motion analysis on was absurdly wide. How he could achieve doppler analysis on something as thick as an index finger is beyond me. THFRO I could go on and on but it would be pointless - it's in colour so it must be true. Mr Clancy - that imaginitive writer of fiction - has a lot to answer for. Watch "Das Boot", now there is a film that portrays things as they were and still are.

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shawn RE:submarines in the movies 6/8/2005 10:43:33 AM

I always wondered, and hope someone can enlighten me... When a sub skipper decides to run silent, does he first press a button to sound an alert, then get on the P.A? As in: Skipper presses button: "Arrrroga, Arrroga!" sounds throughout the sub. Then gets on the PA: "Now hear this, Now hear this, rig sub for silent running." Kinda defeats the purpose, don't you think?

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AussieEngineer RE:submarines in the movies 6/9/2005 2:17:44 AM

no, it's to tell the enemy subs that they are running silent and are not allowed to be shot at anymore, sort of like time out in basketball ;) I don't really know, but it doesn't sound like something you would do. Das Boot was a great movie I saw the directors cut version a while ago, the ending is pretty tradgic.

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jastayme3 RE:submarines in the movies 12/20/2005 6:36:58 PM

Run silent, run deep doesn't have enough "hide and seek"

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EW3 RE:submarines in the movies - Fast&Deep 12/20/2005 7:20:34 PM

2. It is impossible to tell a targets range from his active sonar transmissions Actually is you had your passive array out, in theory you could determine bearing and range (to some degree) by the difference in time the ping is detected at different points on the array, or the array and the subs sonar. The technique is used all the time with radio siganls, but with the relatively slow speed of sound in water, the accuracy would be limited by how far apart the recievers are.

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gf0012-aust RE:submarines in the movies - Fast&Deep 12/20/2005 7:45:15 PM

The only way I can think of to have a chance of detecting with reasobale accuracy is to have them drive over an unannounced seabed array while you've got all your other sensors (SURTASS/TASS/Sonabuoys) deployed. You've got a better chance of creating a holographic/3D footprint. Still no guaranteed though....

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EW3 RE:submarines in the movies - GF 12/20/2005 8:05:27 PM

This isn't my strong suit, but doesn't triangulation work just as well underwater? Even with just 2 sensors as long as they have reasonable directional accuracy, you should be able to find the source of a ping. Even with omnidirectional microphones, the difference in detection time of the same signal by any three sensors should provide a pretty decent location. Only one location would permit all three sensors to recieve the same signals at a specific combination of time differences. The timing of the pulse reception only adds to the accuracy of the equations.

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slowball RE:submarines in the movies 12/20/2005 8:11:48 PM

Das Boot has a couple of minor quirks... --A sub commander wouldn't surface his boat in the middle of a group of burning merchant ships, just to take a look. --He wouldn't waste a torp to hasten the demise of an already fatally wounded merchantman. IMO the best version this great film is the original mini-series (6-7hrs.) from which the theatrical version was cut from. It has much greater continuity and adds a lot of depth to the story. Also includes a lot of cool views of the sub.

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ssnguy RE:submarines in the movies - GF 12/20/2005 11:55:45 PM

If you look at SEAWOLF and VIRGINIA and a few specially refitted 688's you'll those large wide-aperture arrays mounted on the sides. The contain arrays of hydrophones. As a sound impulse arrives it sweeps over the panels. A bit of math, some hand waving, digital signal processing, more hand waving, some intense compute serving, and you can determine a LOT from the data they produce. Coupled with a towed array you can learn even more if the frequency range is right.

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gf0012-aust submarines in the movies - GF 12/21/2005 2:16:22 AM

"If you look at SEAWOLF and VIRGINIA and a few specially refitted 688's " if you have a gander at the Collins Class you'll see flank arrays as well. It's one of the huge advantages that the Collins Class has over the majority of conventionals. The only other conventional with the onboard power to drive similar sized systems are the Japanese O Class.

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