Have you beaten your wife today? Go Saudis!

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SGTObvious Amazing. Sane admits to being not very bright. 10/23/2003 7:28:55 AM

Check out these quotes from CS: 1) "...about Mormons in Utah... that's weird behaviour and shouldn't be tolerated..." 2) "bashing a religion and implying that it is fundamentally 'evil' or 'bad' is not very bright."

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maranatha lidya RE:Have you beaten your wife today? Go Saudis! 10/23/2003 12:13:45 PM

I have nothing against Islam, but I must say that I don't like Arab people. I'm from Indonesia, and many Indonesian women work in Saudi, Kuwait and UAE as maid or house keeper. Many of them were raped, tortured or killed. Last week, about 30 woman returned home from Kuwait, and some of them reported that they had been raped and tortured by their masters. And sadly, our government couldn't do anything about it. So, I think people in Arab world are not only beating their wives. They also beat their maid! If you're a moslem and read this,I apologize. I have nothing against Islam. I like Islam. But if you are from Saudi, Kuwait or Emirates, off and stop beating your maid (or wife)

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Crusader Amazing. Sane admits to being not very bright. Again! 10/23/2003 12:19:20 PM

Sane, the phrase "shouldn't be tolerated..." is "implying that it is fundamentally 'evil' or 'bad'", which therefore means that Sane, according to his own definition, " is not very bright." You wove the rope to hang YOURSELF. Do not accuse Sarge of slander when he was merely using your own words, IN CONTEXT(lest you miss that), to show that you fail your own test. If you are unable to understand that, then you are in need of help in your debating skills.

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SGTObvious YOUR words, not mine, Sane 10/23/2003 12:56:24 PM

I QUOTED YOU, you LIAR! Show me the falsehood, I dare you. Which quote do you suspect I invented? Do Deny they are YOUR OWN WORDS? Citizen Sane, down in flames!

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SGTObvious Gitmo Torture 10/23/2003 1:03:09 PM

CS pondered, "I wonder what Guantanamo torture techniques are like." A beachfront cabana, 3 meals a day in the sunny carribean. If you really want to know what its like, you can either pay a travel agency for the experience (and if you are anything but American, you can even go to Cuba!) or you can join a terror group and the USA will send you for free.

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ravens RE:Gitmo Torture 10/23/2003 3:01:36 PM

gitmo torture you funny those boys have retired and gone to heaven. I wonder if they would leave if set free. yeah if your'e a terrorist you'll be sent there faster than you can say which way is east

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American Kafir RE:Koran___Mr. Kafir 10/23/2003 4:50:09 PM

>Competing lists of barbaric behavior? Two wrongs make a right? Certainly you wouldn't use historical instances of Christian atrocities to justify the existence of unrelated Islamic atrocities, right?< "Well, you're the one exhuming thousand year old stories and pretending that the same things happen now." No I'm not. As pious and emulative as Osama Bin Laden is of the Muslim ideology, he's a piker compared to Prophet Muhammad. But not for lack of trying. "As I said in another post, just look at what the mormons get away with in Utah" What are they getting away with? "In terms of present day atrocities, say, in the last 100 years, who has killed more people?" Why? Again, what is the purpose of making comparative lists of condemnable non-Muslim atrocities? Are you looking for hypocrisy? Or trying for moral relativity? "It wasn't the Arabs who killed Jews so mercilessly." But because in the last 100 years Hitler and other German leftists had a field day with them, it's okay that Arabs are killing them now? "It wasn't Arabs who enslaved Africans, trading them as people do Pokemon cards now." Try again. Look at the Sudan today. "White South Africa. Hiroshima. You know I could go on and on." I don't doubt you could. I also expect, by virtue of purely random chance, that you eventually might actually accidently forge a coherent point to all of this. "Who, indeed, is the most violent group, present day, of course, now that we're all supposed to be 'civilized' in the west ?" I'd say Muslims are, considering they are a direct party in around 90% of the conflicts taking place on our planet today, a figure which is consistent even before September 11th, 2001. "We can talk about human rights violations, anything you'd like, and you'll see that the worst Western crime is more sinister than anything the Arabs have pulled off." I will? Let's see. Stalinist communism? Defeated by the West. Hitlerian fascism? Defeated by the West. Chattel slavery? Abolished by the West. Suffrage for males only? Consigned to a historical footnote in the West. Um, what was it I was supposed to see? "I wonder what Guantanamo torture techniques are like." I know a way you could find out.

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sentinel28a RE:Ethnocentrism 10/23/2003 5:44:57 PM

"Its like citizens of the US conviently forget the internement camps operated during WWII for US own citizens, the torture and terrorism of Vietnam, the paramilitary organisations in Latin America.... I can go on." Please do, Bombard. You're digging your own grave. 1) Internment camps: NO ONE died at these internment camps, unless it was from natural causes. And I mean "non-induced" natural causes. There were no gas chambers at Heart Butte, there were no hangings at Mazanar, and there were no beatings in Mindoka. Though conditions were not perfect and the internment was wrong, the Nisei were not treated badly, they had plenty to eat (enough to sell to surrounding communities), and were, by 1944, permitted to come and go as they pleased. The whole camp experience was more farcical than horrific. 2) Tortures in Vietnam? Yes, there were...My Lai being the most well-known. But maybe we should be fair and address the other side as well: the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong were responsible for 50,000 political murders (that's a low estimate), and what happened to American POWs in the Hanoi Hilton defies belief. Stacked up, I think we come out a bit more pure than they do. 3) Latin America--I've yet to hear about Americans engaged in the stupidity that goes on here. Apparently people tend to forget that the Latin American troops that commit these atrocities are not robots controlled by the Pentagon. They loot, rape, and kill because they want to, not because the US government says so. But then, it's much more convienent to blame America rather than take responsibility. As for the thread subject...I know a few Muslims on the campus where I work, and I've yet to meet one I didn't like. They're not Americans, either--I know Egyptians, Saudis, and Iranians. They're appalled at what they see happening to their religion. The word "jihad" has been so perverted by Osama and like-minded fools that it would be funny, if people weren't being killed over it. There's nothing wrong with Islam as a religion, it's just what people have done with it. The Old Testament says I should stone homosexuals (Exodus, Deuteronomy), but that doesn't mean I'm going to stock up for the gay pride week parade. A local Catholic priest says that Israelis are evil. I think he's an idiot who needs to separate polls from pulpits. It's what you do with religion, not what religion does with you. Every faith in the world has its share of skeletons in its closet; we just happen to be living in an era where Islam's skeletons are on display.

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American Kafir RE:Ethnocentrism 10/23/2003 5:56:19 PM

"No country is perfect. Fools believe their own propganda. Outright fools believe politians propaganda. but only the lowest rank of fool claim to be patriots" Oh my goodness, I'm convinced now. Death to America! Death to America! not.

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Final Historian RE:Ethnocentrism 10/23/2003 5:57:11 PM

Sentinel. Its not the Islam's skeletons are out for all to see, its that they are adding new ones to the closest every day. America is not perfect. Our history is full of things that I am ashamed of. Our treatement of native Americans, our treatment of African slaves, our treatment of African-Americans up to the 1960's, in fact. Along with our treatement of Japanese Americans during WW2. Those were concentration camps. They were not nice places to live. But to compare them to what the Nazis had is a form of Holocaust denial. America admitts that those actions were wrong. We feel badly about them. Yet we do not committ such actions anymore. Sure we supported some not nice people during the Cold War. The South Vietnemese, Latin American Contras, the like. But the alternatives were ALWAYS worse. Pol Pot killed ONE MILLION. Out of a population of three million. The Contras killed plenty of innocent people. But the didn't kill more than the Commies, and they didn't plan on expanding their violence to other nations and encouraging communist rebellions there. Nobody in that situation was good, everyone was doing things that were evil. We just picked the people who wouldn't try and expand that evil to other states, and expand it yet again. For all the evils that the "west" has done, they have been matched by the Islamic world. Forced conversion, slavery, conquest for the sake of adding territory. Those things have long been practiced by Muslims. And are still today. That is the difference. The West has learned from its mistakes, Dar-al-Islam has not.

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