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Subject: Maximum Range for Artillery
Roman    9/11/2004 8:07:38 AM
What is the maximum range for artillery, when it is using 'conventional' ammunition (that means NOT using base-bleed or rocket assisted ammunition)?
 
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Roman    RE:Common Chassis   10/15/2004 6:22:18 AM
AlbanyRifles, true a common chasis would simplify logistics and is generally a good idea. I was, however, not thinking about merely a common chasis - I was wondering why a single vehicle cannot be made to perform both functions.
 
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Roman    RE:Crew and Support    10/15/2004 6:24:57 AM
Great answer ArtyEngineer - thanks! Does the crew size and the minimum number of troops to operate the artillery piece vary with caliber, type of artillery weapon (mortar, howitzer, gun, other) and whether the artillery piece in question is towed or self-propelled? Also, how many people are necessary to support each of the guns in combat apart from the ones crewing and firing the gun?
 
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neutralizer    RE:Maximum Range for Artillery   10/15/2004 6:27:40 AM
Assuming guns not rockets and mobile guns (eg not 40cm coastal guns shooting seriously long distance), then probably 30 - 35 km, which hasn't changed much from the best that was achieved in WW2.
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Common Chassis   10/15/2004 10:29:45 AM
If I understand your question, you want to know why a single vehicle can not fulfill the artilelry and tank role. For a tank you want a high velocity, flat trajectory, direct fire weapon which will defeat armor, whether using kinetic energy (sabot) or chemical energy (HEAT) rounds. For artillery you want an indirect, long range weapon with a wide range of rounds (HE, Smoke, Illumination, Bomblets, Scatterable Mines) for killing troops, equipment and vehicles. And you don't need a a tank chassis for the artillery since you are not worried about armor protection against other tanks and ATGMs...you are just worrying about small arms and other artillery.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Crew and Support    10/15/2004 12:36:32 PM
Thanks Roman, yes, crew size varies greatly with regards to weapon type, I only have experience with the M777 and M198 however so cant give you specifics. Suggest Neutraliser could give info on this, he seems to know his stuff. Regarding support requirements all I can tell you about this is the M777 requirements. Right now a Multi Service Operational Test and Evaluation (MOT&E) is happening at the Marine Corp Air Ground Combat Centre (MCAGCC) in 29 Palms California. This is happening with a battery of 5 M777A1 weapons, from a maintenance point of veiw this is being support by 4 Artillery Mechanics who are actually just behind the gun line with their equipment in two Humvees, they are responsible for whats called unit maintenance, basically if the crew note any annomolies during firing or at the end of days Preventative Maintenance Checks & Services, they are responsible for diagnosing and carrying out corrective actions up to replacing certain Line Replacement Units (LRU's) Back at the gun park there are a further 5 Maintenance Personnel with the equipment and training to carry out much more complex maintenance tasks such as Fire Control ALignment, Major LRU changes such as Cannon Tubes, Recoild system changes etc Supporting Guns in Combat also require the entire logistic chain for Ammo, fuel if the weapons are SP's and all other consumables. The Fire Direction Centre, Forward Observers etc are also vital component to artillery operations. The gun crews are truely only a tiny part of the manpower required to sustain artillery operations. Hope this helps a little. Did you see my response to your question regarding artillery manufacturing? This is based on my experience with the M777
 
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Taliban Killer    RE:Maximum Range for Artillery   10/30/2004 5:22:20 PM
So what's the accuracy like over 30km range? Does it compare with the "Smart-bombs"? How about for the Iowa's what's the accuracy at close to max range?
 
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french stratege    RE:Maximum Range for Artillery   10/30/2004 8:44:21 PM
I would assume that a maximum speed of 1200 m/s would be easlily achievable regarding DCA gun or tank gun without using tricks like base bleed, subcaliber shells with discarding sabot.It would use a long gun up to 60 to 70 calibers.With such an initial speed for a big gun we can assume a range exceeding well 60 km. The long gun which bombed Paris in 1918 have a range exceeding well 100 km without base bleed or subcaliber shell it seems.
 
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neutralizer    RE:Maximum Range for Artillery   10/31/2004 1:06:19 AM
People often confuse 'accuracy' and 'consistency' (sometimes called 'dispersion' by pessimists). Accuracy is a function of the quality of the range and accuracy firings used to produce the aeroballistic data for then gun, then the accuracy of the meteorological data and the muzzle velocity at the time of field firing. In other words accuracy is the distance between the mean point of impact and the target location. Consistency is the spread of the shells around the mean point of impact, obviously this is affected by minute to minute variations in meteorological conditions, but the main variable is the round to round variation in MV, and this is mainly a function of the quality control in the manufacture and packing of the propellant. The influence of the actual gun on both accuracy and consistency is relatively small, assuming the sights are aligned with the bore and the various mechanical linkages from sights through elevating mass to bore aren't 'sloppy' through wear, you can add others things to this such as the accuracy of laying (and remember sights are usually only marked to whole mils although clinometer laying may be to 1/10th of a mil), and modern automated laying systems have significantly improved this. Consistency of ramming each shell is another factor, and well adjusted power rammers are probably better that people at achieving this. Regular sight testing keeps the sights-bore alignment under control in well trained armies. A propellant, chamber and barrel length could undoubtedly be designed to achieve unassisted long ranges. The problem is the barrel length and size of the carriage would probably be deemed impractical for modern tactical field use. And railway guns or fixed mountings are currently out of fashion. Ships, of course, are another matter.
 
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Shooter    RE:Maximum Range for Artillery   12/26/2004 1:50:45 AM
MV^2 is more or less porportional to range with any given shell gun combo.
 
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Red Striker    RE:Maximum Range for Artillery   1/31/2005 9:14:57 AM
it really depends on the arty piece if the gun is shooting 155mm or 105mm the ditance will vary greatly becasue of the amount of powder charge is varried by the size of the shell and the weapon system its self
 
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