Military History
|
How To Make War
|
Wars Around the World
Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Artillery
Discussion Board
Return to Topic Page
Subject:
Are rplling barages used now days?
jofredes
2/29/2004 6:37:05 AM
Are rolling barages used now days, it was a favored method among the soviets but has artillery radars made this method obsolete?
Quote
Reply
Show Only Poster Name and Title
Newest to Oldest
Worcester
RE:Are rolling barages used now days?
3/2/2004 1:59:18 PM
The favored method (by professional troops) is the silent (night) attack where you move to the start line silently (possibly with diversionary fire) and your fire support commences to neutralize selected targets as soon as you break cover. It is both planned fire (before battle) and directed fire (during battle) - it doesn't roll but it can be switched back and forth by your controllers. Rolling barrages are better referred to as creeping; the arty like to push them forward and then bring them back to sweep the same ground several times and let the infantry catch up. The problem is this is extremely wasteful of ammunition - much better to have real targets. The only creeping barrage I worked under was from mortars and that was to lay a mix of HE and smoke. We also used to use our medium machine guns with a different colored tracer for each company to indicate our lines of advance to specific enemy positions when they would switch to the next position or "tactical bound".
Quote
Reply
rocketpower
YES
4/11/2004 9:31:44 PM
Q-37 and Q-36 balistic radars are deployed with all FA units at both battery and brigade level in US ARMY. Modern arty is about shoot and scoot. That is why MLRS becomes so valuble. An M270A1 launcher can lay (aim), fire a 6 rocket barrange, and stow in less than 60 seconds. Any unit that sits at a fire point for more than 60 seconds risks counterfire. The combination of dedicated counterfire units, tag radar, and all digital C3 systems means that counterfire comes rapidly and is very accurate.
Quote
Reply
Threepwood
There are a variety of ways the concept is still used..
6/30/2004 4:09:14 PM
You are correct about artillery radars making long barrages dangerous against an enemy with this capability. However, ignoring that risk, a ground commander has a lot of flexibility with planned fires on an objective. A simple and effective way to keep the enemy suppressed as you approach is called "echelonment of fires." Simply put, you fire your biggest asset until you reach the point where the risk to friendlies is too great, whereupon you "turn on" the next smallest asset and "turn off" the heavier. This enables you to get very close to the enemy before he is out from under indirect attack, as close as 100m if you have 60mm mortars available. Naturally, all of this is contingent on ammunition supply and availability of assets. A good guideline for the minimum safe distances: 1000m for air, 750m for naval gunfire, 400m for 155mm artillery and 120mm mortars, 300m for 105mm arty, 200m for 81mm mortars, and 100m for 60mm mortars. The numbers are subject to the maneuver commander's preference, but they're in that ballpark.
Quote
Reply
doggtag
RE:There are a variety of ways the concept is still used..
6/30/2004 5:09:54 PM
The fact that we (the world in general) are progressing rapidly in the areas of precision guided shells and effective cluter munitions, it could easily be argued that within the next few decades or half century that massed barrages become obsolete for all except third-world and rebel contigents trying to harass their enemies. PGMs and course corrected cluster shells to defeat personnel and vehicles can be deployed in less numbers than standard HE rounds, and can be far more effective. There is the cost issue, (an estimate here, not solid figures) because if half a dozen clusters shells or PGM rounds can effectively neutralize an area as opposed to a dozen or more standard rounds, that may be preferred. And it could also improve the field life of gun barrels if they are firing less numbers of rounds each engagement to effectively eliminate targets. Considering that many of the newer artillery systems can do multiple round simultaneous impact on a target, and at ranges of up to 40km and greater, "shoot and scoot" will most likely be the favored method, just to avoid such effective counter-battery fire which can reach targets up to 30 or 40km distant within 5 minutes (with an alert FDC/FireFinder crew). Will we see the end of the fixed emplacement towed artillery and ground mortar systems in favor off all-SP versions? Probably not, but a legitimate arguement is there..
Quote
Reply
Latest
News
Most
Read
Most
Commented
Hot
Topics
ATTRITION: The Destruction Of The Syrian Air Force
IRAQ: Holding Off The Holocaust
AIR DEFENSE: Patriot Gains A Longer Reach Against Missiles
PROCUREMENT: How Israeli Tech Gets To Eager Moslem Customers
MURPHY'S LAW: How The Generals Learned To Tolerate The Internet
YEMEN: Al Qaeda Scrambles To Survive
AFGHANISTAN: Taliban Divided On Making Peace
ISRAEL: Palestinians Inspired, Confused And Divided By Syria
MURPHY'S LAW: The Search For Politically Correct Weapons
COUNTER-TERRORISM: Why Syrian Rebels Have Their Own Internal Civil War
INFORMATION WARFARE: Data Mining Screws The Pirates
RUSSIA: The Red Army Gets Its Mojo Back
INFORMATION WARFARE: NetTraveler Joins Red October
WARPLANES: Yet More New Arrival Dates For The F-35
ARTILLERY: Caesar Gets Bulletproof, Just In Case
INDIA-PAKISTAN: Dark Days For The Generals
NAVAL AIR: U.S. Navy Ships Get a New UAV
INTELLIGENCE: How To Spot North Korean Spies
PROCUREMENT: Russia Battles Incompetent Shipyards
MURPHY'S LAW: The Chinese Edge Over South Asia
SYRIA: A Bloody Summer Guaranteed
SUDAN: Misery
NAVAL AIR: Russia Plays Catch Up
IRAN: The Sure Thing
NBC WEAPONS: New Nukes Overshadowed By Massive Retirements
INTELLIGENCE: Chinese Spies Slip Into India
PEACEKEEPING: Russians Flee The Caucasus Anyway
SOMALIA: Chaotic And Dangerous Is The New Normal
INTELLIGENCE: World War II LST Threatens China
SUBMARINES: American SSN Fleet Shrinks
Subscribe to Our RSS Feed
Information Warfare: Data Mining Screws The Pirates
Murphy's Law: The Search For Politically Correct Weapons
WARS Russia: The Red Army Gets Its Mojo Back
WARS Israel: Palestinians Inspired, Confused And Divided By Syria
Counter-Terrorism: Why Syrian Rebels Have Their Own Internal Civil War
WARS Afghanistan: Taliban Divided On Making Peace
Warplanes: Yet More New Arrival Dates For The F-35
Artillery: Caesar Gets Bulletproof, Just In Case
Intelligence: How To Spot North Korean Spies
Information Warfare: NetTraveler Joins Red October
WARS India-Pakistan: Dark Days For The Generals
Naval Air: U.S. Navy Ships Get a New UAV
Procurement: Russia Battles Incompetent Shipyards
Murphy's Law: The Chinese Edge Over South Asia
WARS Syria: A Bloody Summer Guaranteed
Naval Air: Russia Plays Catch Up
WARS Iran: The Sure Thing
NBC Weapons: New Nukes Overshadowed By Massive Retirements
WARS Sudan: Misery
Intelligence: Chinese Spies Slip Into India
Intelligence: World War II LST Threatens China
Submarines: American SSN Fleet Shrinks
Peacekeeping: Russians Flee The Caucasus Anyway
Space: The Chinese Conspiracy In Orbital Space
WARS Somalia: Chaotic And Dangerous Is The New Normal
MURPHY'S LAW: The Search For Politically Correct Weapons
SYRIA: A Bloody Summer Guaranteed
MURPHY'S LAW: Russian Diplomats Wield Their Missiles Deftly
SPACE: The Chinese Conspiracy In Orbital Space
IRAN: The Sure Thing
WARPLANES: Yet More New Arrival Dates For The F-35
INTELLIGENCE: World War II LST Threatens China
SUBMARINES: American SSN Fleet Shrinks
ARTILLERY: Caesar Gets Bulletproof, Just In Case
RUSSIA: The Red Army Gets Its Mojo Back
COUNTER-TERRORISM: Why Syrian Rebels Have Their Own Internal Civil War
IRAQ: Holding Off The Holocaust
MURPHY'S LAW: How The Generals Learned To Tolerate The Internet
ATTRITION: The Destruction Of The Syrian Air Force
INTELLIGENCE: Chinese Spies Slip Into India
FORCES: The Maniac Fringe In Syria
ISRAEL: Palestinians Inspired, Confused And Divided By Syria
AFGHANISTAN: Taliban Divided On Making Peace
INFORMATION WARFARE: NetTraveler Joins Red October
INDIA-PAKISTAN: Dark Days For The Generals
Dirty Little Links: News Links.
Counter-Terrorism Operations: Why Syrian Rebels Have Their Own Internal Civil War
Attrition: The Destruction Of The Syrian Air Force
Iraq: Holding Off The Holocaust
Murphy's Law in Action: How The Generals Learned To Tolerate The Internet
Submarines: South Korean SSX -111
Books of Interest
Gettysburg: The Last Invasion
American Gun: A History of the U.S. in Ten Firearms
The Chinese Information War: Espionage, Cyberwar, Communications Control and Related Threats to United States Interests
The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944-1945 (Liberation Trilogy)
From Amazon
News
How To Make War
Wars Around The World
Austin Bay's On Point
StrategyTalk
Dirty Little Secrets
Features
Al Nofi's CIC
Prediction Market
Wargames
Measure of Respect
On War and Warfare
Videos
Photos
Jokes
Community
Military Discussion Boards
Military Jokes
Military Photos
Military Book Reviews
Military Movie Reviews
StrategyPage
Subscribe
Login
Feedback
About Us
Search
Account Manager
Advertise With Us
Search