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Subject: NEMO customer....does anyone know?
doggtag    11/29/2010 5:56:16 PM
A curious new US FMS (Foreign Military Sales) contract... from Defense-Aerospace.Com, Patria Signed the Final Subcontract for the Supply of Its Nemo Mortar System ( http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/120518/patria-finalizes-nemo-mortar-sale-for-lav-vehicles.html ) ...and the original article from Patria (English version website), ( http://www.patria.fi/patria_www_en_sisalto/patria_www_en/news+and+info/press+releases+and+news/patria+signed+the+final+subcontract+for+the+supply+of+it_s+nemo+mortar+system.html ) ...with little infdo of who the final customer is. What's of interest is, it's being conducted thru the US FMS program, so obviously is a US ally, one who operates the LAV family. ...36 systems: any guesses who for?
 
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ArtyEngineer    DT   11/30/2010 12:23:46 AM

A curious new US FMS (Foreign Military Sales) contract...

from Defense-Aerospace.Com,

Patria Signed the Final Subcontract for the Supply of Its Nemo Mortar System
( link )

...and the original article from Patria (English version website),
( link )

...with little infdo of who the final customer is.
What's of interest is,
it's being conducted thru the US FMS program, so obviously is a US ally, one who operates the LAV family.

...36 systems: any guesses who for?
I know who.  Keep an eye on the following site for official notification.
 
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doggtag    AE   11/30/2010 8:10:05 AM
Cool, thanks....
 
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HeavyD       11/30/2010 3:28:32 PM
Who?  Someone who has some common sense (which pretty much rules the US out...procurement is about so much more than practicality).  Placing a NEMO on a LAV is a no-brainer.  I hope we see them in Afghanistan soon.
 
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doggtag    speculation...   11/30/2010 4:19:03 PM
I'm actually betting on several possibilities,
surprisingly with the USMC being one of them (evaluation and tactics development: they need to look to a LAV-25 replacement, including the TOW variant, and the Stryker MGS isn't the best contender, in part on the the fact that Strykers aren't amphibs like the earlier LAV variants...mention elsewhere is/was that the Patria AMV is a strong contender to replace aging LAVs because the AMVs can swim if need be...).
 
As to foreign customers: I would expect any of them to be able to afford their own sh*t without the US having to foot any of the bill (oh, the money we could save in not paying to equip so many other countries via FMS!).
 
Obviously we can eliminate any Europeans who are centered around the Boxer, the AMV,
and the French VBCI-8wheeled-Whatever it's called....
And Italy has their own 8-wheeled Centauro (105 or 120mm TD) slash Freccia (APC/IFV) family of vehicles.
 
Canada is big on the LAV family, but has found success with MBT use in A-stan,...MBTs DO require a large supporting logistics trail, however, and are severely weight-constrained when everything must be flown in.
 
The Saudis, they already operate LAV/Piranhas with the aging Royal Ordnance AMS 120mm mortar, a similar turreted, direct-fire-capable system: these are getting old and I don't know the status of BAE support  for said equipment, so a replacement could be in the works, although 36 seems too few to replace the 80-odd (IIRC) AMS the Saudi Nat'l Guard has/had in service at one time...
 
Taiwan, possible: a rapid-reaction-capable heavily-armed vehicle capable at slinging PGMs several km at a potential landing craft invasion scenario does seem to have some decent deterrent factor,...but 36 seems too few.
 
The surprising contender yet might be Australia, under Land-Whatever....still,
and no offense to our Australian posters,
why should the US be pony'ing up money to outfit some other nation's military...?
(bad enough we so eagerly kowtow to the Arab countries, yet they still secretly prefer the US to act against Iran rather than policing their own neighborhood themselves...)
We have enough defense budget concerns as it is, and I doubt many taxpayers would approve of knowing that we cut and slash our own military's budget, but keep throwing money into other countries' defense coffers....
 
Hopefully, whoever is getting these, it will pan out to be a wise decision on our part.
 
I think it'd be awesome for a US branch (USMC, Army) to buy up some NEMOs and see just what we can do with them (new tactics and doctrine, etc).
 
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mabie       12/26/2010 4:11:38 AM
what about Israel?
 
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doggtag       12/26/2010 4:22:18 PM
Israel has considerable experience in its homegrown mortar industry (Soltam, etc).
Numerous impressive systems have been developed, including some of the longest ranged 60mm types
(6000m with the C-06A1),
and 120mm types purchased by many foreign nations.
So I rather doubt, with such an established home base of mortar designs, that Israel would go out and purchase a foreign system,
especially considering the Patria press release above mentions they are for LAV-type wheeled vehicles, something Israel doesn't operate (Israel would more likely install such a system on M113s: they have plenty in service).
 
Possible, but doubtful .
I do find it odd though that there isn't more mention of indigenous PGM programs for their mortars: they developed the LAHAT system for tank guns (up tp 120mm) that can also be rail-launched via helicopters,
and there have been international cooperations for other tube-fired PGMs, but I've never learned of any Israeli-unique mortar PGM program...
 
And as focused as they are on urban warfare, I am surprised it would've taken them this long to consider direct-fire-capable gun mortars, if they are indeed the customer.
 
Then again, my deductive reasoning has been wrong before...
 
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mabie    Simple question   12/26/2010 11:03:22 PM
What's the difference between a breech-loading mortar and a breech-loading howitzer? The type of ammo?
 
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AThousandYoung       12/26/2010 11:51:34 PM

What's the difference between a breech-loading mortar and a breech-loading howitzer? The type of ammo?

A howizer is halfway between a mortar and a direct fire cannon.  It fires at higher velocity than mortars and I think at shallower angles.  Mortars are oftentimes smaller as well.
 
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mabie       12/27/2010 5:52:17 AM

I'm actually betting on several possibilities,

surprisingly with the USMC being one of them (evaluation and tactics development: they need to look to a LAV-25 replacement, including the TOW variant, and the Stryker MGS isn't the best contender, in part on the the fact that Strykers aren't amphibs like the earlier LAV variants...mention elsewhere is/was that the Patria AMV is a strong contender to replace aging LAVs because the AMVs can swim if need be...).
....... 
I think it'd be awesome for a US branch (USMC, Army) to buy up some NEMOs and see just what we can do with them (new tactics and doctrine, etc).

Whatever is the status of Dragon Fire II developed by the USMC? Nemo would appear to support a higher susteained rate of fire.


 
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